Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
How to Avoid Common Divorce Mistakes with Rhonda Noordyk
Feeling overwhelmed by the financial aspect of divorce? First, you’re not alone and second, this episode is for you!
Meet Rhonda Noordyk, a passionate financial advocate dedicated to helping women navigate the challenges of divorce with confidence and clarity.
Rhonda has worked with so many women who feel like they’ve lost confidence with money after a divorce. She reminds us to give ourselves some grace because it’s a process. You don’t have to have it all figured out right away, and that’s okay.
We also talk about some of the biggest mistakes people make when figuring out their divorce settlement, like rushing into decisions without fully understanding them. Rhonda’s advice? “We have one opportunity to get it right,” and you don’t have to make decisions without all the facts.
If you find it challenging to speak up around your needs, one of Rhonda’s best tips is a simple but powerful way to negotiate called ANOT—
- Acknowledge
- Naturally
- Obviously
- Ask
This episode is all about helping you feel more confident in your finances during divorce, giving you the tools to make smart choices, and taking control of your financial future—without additional stress.
00:00 Introduction to Rhonda
00:52 The Importance of Specialized Financial Expertise in Divorce
03:28 Starting the Divorce Process
06:02 Financial Advice for Women Post-Divorce
08:32 Common Financial Mistakes and How to Avoid Them
16:01 Negotiation Strategies During Divorce
20:21 Rebuilding Financial Confidence Post-Divorce
22:19 Practical Steps for a Solid Financial Foundation
Got a unique financial story to share? Whether it’s about crushing debt, building wealth, an unexpected windfall, or just a wild money moment, we want to hear it! Or are you a professional who helps women with money? If you’re a financial coach, attorney, CPA, or work in any area that empowers women financially, we’d love to hear from you too! Your story could inspire our community of women. Fill out our intake form here!
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Barb: [00:00:00] What a great opportunity to have Rhonda on our podcast today. She is chock full of information and experience for sure on helping women navigate divorce. Now she's not an attorney, she's not a mediator, but she's a certified divorce financial analyst and sometimes you'll see CDFA after someone's name and that means that she's been certified to help women Walk through their finances as it relates to the distribution of assets when they're going through divorce.
And what's interesting about that is people don't know about that certification. They don't know it's out there. Now she works significantly. this area, but you might also see financial professionals who also have this designation as part of their offerings and what they do and who they focus on.
Maggie: It's so important to find a professional who has a real niche and skill set in these specific areas because once you dive [00:01:00] in to divorce, there are so many nuances. You wouldn't know that unless you really like go through this program and, and do, you know, a hundred divorces yourself. And so hiring someone who has that super niche expertise
to me is just so worth it because you want someone who's done it a hundred times, knows what to look for, knows what to avoid, knows the good, the bad, the ugly, and you're paying for that expertise. You wouldn't just go to your regular family doctor.
You'd go to the heart surgeon, and that's how I feel about it. Like there's things in all these different areas, but people don't understand that for divorce, you can get someone so specialized and can just help you in that one area of life, just that one process, not before or after, but really just through that middle area.
Barb: Yeah, divorce isn't just like we're getting divorced. I need to hire an attorney. There's a lot more expertise out there in the world that can help you navigate it. And like you said, get someone who's been through this process a hundred, 200 times and knows the ins and outs and can navigate it with you because it'll save you money,
it'll save you time, it'll save you a heartache, [00:02:00] it'll save you regret from moving too fast or not having all the information and making decisions that you just didn't know you didn't know.
Maggie: And the biggest thing is if you say CDFA, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. They're all about analyzing your finances, right? We got the words. The attorney's an expert in the law. So if you're asking them to divide your finances, they don't know those nuances. We really talk about if you're going to get divorced, start maybe with a CDFA.
They're cheaper per hour than an attorney, and they'll help you split the finances and really get that picture. Because I think at the end of the day, that's what most people are wondering, is how am I going to be financially? Like, 90%, that's the worry. So starting with a CDFA can be a great option.
You probably will need to add, an attorney to your team, at least to finalize and legalize the documents. You could go, the mediation route and just have a CDFA with you. And then there's sometimes even more interesting designations, like a CDLP, which is a Certified Divorce Loan Practitioner.
And so they can really help you if you [00:03:00] are moving your house into your name, or if you're going to buy a new house and how to buy a house using alimony as an income, but it has to be counted as income if it's over three years. If it's not three years of getting that, there's all these nuances.
So that loan professional can really help you get a loan that fits for you and that house. And so, it's just crazy when you dive in how much nuance there is, but then it's like, ugh, duh, of course I want someone who knows
Barb (2): Right,
Maggie: all of that hotspot.
Barb (2): right. You want the expert.
So at purse strings because we know divorce is a tough go. You, first and foremost, want to get your documents in order. And we've created this amazing document that's free, called Everything You Should Do Before You Mention the D Word. So, it prepares you with all the documents you need to locate.
Are they a paper document or can you create a file of the documents that are online? Maybe what institutions, banks, financial institutions, or whatever you need to go to [00:04:00] locate any kind of your financial documents, anything for your mortgage, just all the paper documents that you're going to need in order to navigate a divorce because getting yourself set up And organized at the front end is going to help you so much more when you're working with a CDFA or an attorney or anybody in this process.
Because the very first thing they're going to tell you to do is to get these documents and get them into place. where they can take a look at all of them. If you don't do that, and let's say you're paying an attorney, you could be paying money to an attorney while you're trying to find all the documents.
So we want to skip that, get you prepared, get all your documents in order. It tells you what documents to get, where to file them, and it also goes through a comprehensive list of all the different financial professionals. Who work in the realm of divorce and what they're used for. Not that you need to hire them all, but it just explains who [00:05:00] they are, what their designations are and how they can help you in the process.
Maggie: And I think this is a great tool just to start knowing what to gather and to see, okay, what I can gather, maybe what my partner is not letting me gather, you know, to kind of see when you go to your professional, this is what we have, this is what we still need to find and really get that full assessment.
So I think this is going to partner great with this podcast episode with Rhonda. So I'm excited for everyone to dive in, grab this download in the show notes and feel supported in this transition of life. So with that, let's dive in.
Maggie: Let's dive into today's conversation as our guest is Rhonda Noordyk, and we are so excited to have her here. Before we get started, Rhonda, can you give us a little intro of who you are, what you do, and where you're located?
Rhonda: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me today. My name is Rhonda Noordyk. I am a certified divorce financial analyst. I am the owner of Financial Divorce [00:06:00] Advocacy, physically located here in the Midwest about an hour north of Chicago, so I know I'm not too far from you guys, but work all over the country.
So just really excited to be able to serve women from coast to coast and help them navigate through the financial aspects of the divorce process.
Maggie: Yeah, we're excited to have you on today and really share your expertise as we know, you know, divorce is a life changing event both emotionally and financially. So just to kind of kick it off, what advice do you have for women who are starting over financially after divorce? Especially when it comes to setting new financial resolutions?
Rhonda: Yeah, absolutely. One of the biggest things, a lot of times when women are coming out of a relationship, they have divide and conquered. So many of them are feeling like they've lost their confidence around money. And so my advice is always give yourself some grace,
be patient. I think it is a process and I think we have to remember that it's a process. A lot of times we wanna be to the end and know all the things [00:07:00] before we walk through it. I always say there's no shortcuts to the process. We can condense timeframes, but we always wanna be walking through the process in a systematic way as much as possible, because I think it helps women reengage with their voice.
It also helps them to be able to rebuild their confidence. Many times I'll talk with women and they're like, Rhonda, I used to bounce the checkbook. If that's still even a thing, right? But, they're like, I used to, be independent. I used to, and then they, for whatever reason, circumstantially got away from that. And I think that's the biggest thing, of all of the financial related things. There's the tactical piece of it. And then there's the other kind of intangible pieces, right, and I think a lot of times women are just struggling with guilt, shame, lack of confidence around the financial aspect, so I really just want to help them break it down, make it simple.
I know Dr. Barber and I share a passion for education. I taught in higher education. I could take, concepts that maybe seem complicated and find a way to make them seem a little bit more [00:08:00] palatable and help women, realize, okay, yeah, I can do this. And they don't have to do it alone.
I think that's the other key thing, right?
Barb: Yeah. What are some of the most common financial mistakes that you see women making that if we share them here, they can get ahead of those?
Rhonda: Yeah, I love that question. So there's a couple. I think one of the first ones is agreeing to things too early. Like, we oversimplify. So it's like, hey, listen, you keep the pension, I'll keep the house, and we'll go our merry way. And while that might be fine, I always say, like, we have to look at a little bit deeper to say, is that really fine?
And the other part with that too is, I think at the end of the day, women are very they very much want to be people of integrity. If they say they are going to do something, they want to follow through. And so by them agreeing too early on, they back themselves into a corner because they end up, right, saying, well, yeah, but I said, yeah, but you said.
I always encourage people, like, [00:09:00] hang tight and say something to the lines of, hey, I'm happy to make a swift decision when I have all of the information.
Barb: Smart. Yeah, I remember talking to a financial professional. She said, I'm a financial professional. I was going through a divorce, didn't think I needed any experts in my team and thought I can do this and, bulldozed ahead. And she said, Oh my gosh, I regret that so much. I made so many mistakes.
I didn't have a third party kind of look over everything. I rushed through it, which is another thing I hear women say, I just want to get it over with so they don't take the time, like you're saying, to really get all the information.
Rhonda: Yeah, absolutely. And and I think the other mistake too, right, is sometimes they, want to believe the best in their soon to be ex spouse, right? And they're like, Rhonda, he's telling me this is fair. He's telling me that, I'm getting a good deal. And I said, well, maybe you are, right?
But we get to define that you're going to be fine, not. We, [00:10:00] meaning you, right, and I'm going to help you do that. And so that's been one of the adages too, is we're going to define what fine is. But, to your point, Dr. Bob, I think at the end of the day, right, when I left the financial industry ten years ago, you think, okay, I've got this great baseline of financial knowledge, which I did.
But it took me years, I mean several years, just to get the terminology and the nuances, because the way that we look at the finances, as it relates to the divorce process is different than if you're not going through divorce. And so there's all these little nuances and details that really, at the end of the day, do matter.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Maggie: and I know we've sent this before on here as well, but like a dollar today is not a dollar tomorrow. And so you have to look at how all those buckets kind of work together to make what that money is going to be in the future. Because, you know, you need the money you can get your hands on today versus the money that's going to help you in your retirement.
And assessing all those different things. It's not just like you take one account and I take the other, but what are those tax implications? How are they going to grow? Do you have any penalties? Can I get cash out now? There are [00:11:00] just so many nuances.
And so it's, it's important to really assess what you have in all these different areas than just splitting. You take a bucket. I take a bucket.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Rhonda: Absolutely. And it really comes back to, what are your goals and values? I think a lot of times that gets lost too. It sounds high level, but at the end of the day, it is so important. And I always tell people when you know what your values are and you know what your goals are,
that becomes the foundation for us to have these conversations. So when we are in the midst of the negotiations, right? And people are, we're rolling up our sleeves and trying to come to a resolution. We have something to stand on because we've done the work. Like, is this an alignment with your.
And if you are giving up something, what are you getting in exchange? I think a lot of times women find themselves saying, Yes, okay, yes, I'll give them that, or yes, I'll do this, or yes. And all of a sudden they're like, wait a minute, how did I get to this point?
Barb: Yeah. I gave everything away.. Right.
Rhonda: just want to keep the peace fine.
I'll figure it out and to your point That's where I think women years later, right when I started my [00:12:00] business There were so many people that said Rhonda. Where were you 10 20 years ago? And I'm like, let's see Probably like high school college, you know it was the business was a twinkle in my eye kind of thing, right?
but at the end of the day I think that's the part that women are like, well, I'll just figure it out. Well, yes, and, okay, yes, we can be, super women and all that, but we also have to be smart, and what's interesting, too, that I've noticed is that for the women that are maybe listening that are the higher income earner, and they're like, Rhonda, I'm the breadwinner.
I'm the moneyed spouse, right? Here's what I've seen, and again, I would love to do a study on this because I find it so fascinating, and that is that the women that are the higher income earners end up giving it. Way, way more right. Than their counterparts, because they're like, yeah, I'll just figure it out.
I don't want to hassle give. Right. And the unfortunate part of that is 10, 20 years later, they're regretting it because they're feeling like, they're regretting their decision because they wish they would've, maybe not done that. And [00:13:00] again, the laws are in place in hopes to be able to put some of those bumpers, right?
But I think the other piece is that, especially for divorce, it's not black and white. And so every, every state, whether they're equitable distribution, whether it's marital property, I have said, listen, if it was black and white, my clients would be able to have, five different judges and they'd all rule the same.
That's not the case. And so we have to be able to say, okay, and people hire me to say, okay, let's think through your specific situation. What are the levers that we can move to be able to help you get to a resolution? And the other part of it is I'm not saying, yeah, let's just come in and take the guys out at the knees.
Like I actually had a client, right? Like I don't hate men. I just want women to come into these situations well educated, empowered, having the confidence to be able to know what they're agreeing to. And if women having all of that make a decision, they've made an informed decision. Like I'm cool with that then, right?
There was actually a client I was working with out of Colorado and [00:14:00] she was, the higher earning spouse. And she had just had enough and said, I don't care if my husband's homeless. And she was a dead, I mean it wasn't just like an adage, like she was like, I don't care. And it was one of the very first times that I actually fired a client.
I'm like, I'm not doing this, right? I can't. Because it's not right. And he has a right to some, and maybe not as much, maybe less than what, whatever. But at the end of the day, I'm not doing that. And so we ended up parting ways. And so I think it's important for people, especially women, who say, Well, I just, I want to play fair.
I don't want to take advantage of him. I don't want to, take him to the cleaners. No kidding! Right? I mean, there might be some that have that bitterness, but for most of the time, the women that I work with, and probably the ones that you guys are attracting, are the ones that really say, listen, I just want this to be as equitable and as fair as possible.
The question is, how do we get there?
Maggie: hmm.
Barb: that leads me to my question around conflict. I mean, conflict is a natural part of divorce, right? [00:15:00] I mean, you can't really get divorced without some conflict and financial conflict, right? I mean, sometimes finances are the whole reason they are getting divorced. So during that divorce process, how can you prepare them for like post divorce financial negotiations, things like that?
Maggie: Yeah, I feel like so many of these women take on these things or say, like, don't worry about it to avoid that conflict, right? It's like, I'll pick and choose my battles and I'll face that battle later, with myself when I'm done with you.
It's like, oh shit, now I took on all these battles that I got to go fight on my own that if I fought before, maybe it could have been better, easier, pushed off.
Rhonda: Yeah, I think that's a really good point because, from the negotiation perspective, the way that I look at it is we have one opportunity to get it right
And so the negotiations, if somebody calls me and they're like, Rhonda, I just signed the MSA and it's final and my divorce is finalized, I'm like, I don't even want to see it because I know that I'm going to see things in there that are going to irritate me, like, oh no.
Maggie: can you [00:16:00] share what an MSA is?
Rhonda: so marital sentiment agreement. Yeah. Right, that final agreement that people sign that kind of encapsulates all the things that they've been working so hard to get to. The, the health insurance, the financial aspect of how things are going to get split, the kid related stuff, all the things, right? And so you get to that point and you sign the agreement, We have a window prior to that where we can take a look and say, okay, yes, because I'm always looking at once this is signed, then what's going to be the impact of this after it's signed? So, as much as there's maybe going to be negotiations after, my intention in working with women is to do the negotiations before they sign that.
And so I have a process that I take them through and I'd love to share quick the acronym because I love it so much. So, and I'm a big acronym person as you probably remember from doing the panel discussion live when we had that event in Illinois. But it's called ANOT. A N O T. And it's simple and easily applicable whether we're negotiating big stuff or little stuff, okay?
And so it's [00:17:00] acknowledge. The A is acknowledge. Acknowledging something of gratitude, right? And we might have to dig deep for that, but like it has to be authentic, all right? Like just something simple, one liner that we're grateful for. Then it's naturally. So we always start with ourselves first, right?
Naturally I, And then the O is obviously you, and then it's the ask. Okay, so like for example, I'll tee this up. So let's say that there's clients, and they're scheduled for mediation, and they're trying to get some information ahead of time to make sure that they're prepared. So they could say, Hey, I'm really grateful that we have the opportunity to go to mediation.
Naturally, I want to make sure that we're prepared. Obviously you do too. It's simple, right? But what we're doing is psychologically getting them to say yes. And then the ask is, Hey can you make sure that we have this particular document before we go into mediation?
Or can you make sure that you bring the checkbook because we're both going to have to write a check to the mediator? Or, I mean, it can be little things that we're just getting their buy in on. It doesn't [00:18:00] mean that we have to necessarily go right to the ask of like, Hey, and the ask is, you keep the house and I keep this.
Like, we're not necessarily There may be times for that, but, like, we can start with the little stuff. And I think that framework allows us as women to start to find our voice. Like, there were so many times when I was in the financial industry that I had to build that muscle of having assertive communication and negotiating, and it was not comfortable.
And I would sit at my computer, or I'd be in a meeting, and I wouldn't know where to start the conversation. And so when you developed this acronym, I'm like, this is great because I can have this on a sticky note, and of course I don't need it now, but I mean, then I did, right? Like you have it there where you're like, okay, let me think through this exercise and build the muscle, and now it's part of pretty much every conversation at some point is this nice flow of having the negotiation, because when we get into those negotiation conversations, it's hard because women are often like, Well, I don't know and we're gonna, you prepare to a [00:19:00] point and then you just got to go in and have the conversation and you anticipate as much as you can, but you might get a curveball and so I do actually attend quite a few mediations with my clients.
I'm in there as an expert along with their team so that when those negotiations are going back and forth, I can help say, Okay, yes, let's think through this.
Speaker 9: Right,
Rhonda: And so I think the other part that's really important for women to realize and remember is it doesn't have to be all or nothing either. Like it can say, yes, I agree to this part, but I'm not really jiving with this. Can we do something about this part? So I think a lot of times we feel like it has to be black and white, like either we take the deal or no, but I think when we as women start to realize like we can push back, we can ask questions, we can say yes to certain parts but no to others it just helps us be in those situations where we can be empowered.
Maggie: Yeah, and I know empowerment is like a core theme of your approach, and you can really see that through some of this conversation, how you're giving kind of those tools to feel empowered and to be part of that conversation. How can women, you know, [00:20:00] rebuild their financial confidence after divorce, especially if they felt like financially dependent on their spouse?
Rhonda: Yeah, I think there's a couple things. I mean, one is putting yourself in those situations that are going to allow you to have success, right? But again, remembering we don't have to do it on our own. Like I have throughout the years, put myself in situations where I'm like, okay, I'm going to Maybe not know everything about this, but I'm going to do it anyways, right?
And so I got really good at asking, okay, help me understand why this is important. Whether it's going and buying a car. I'm married, I went and did that on my own. Because I'm like, I gotta go in there and know that if something ever happened, I'm in a position where I'm like, I did that before, and it wasn't as scary as I thought, and I was good, right?
Now, do I have people behind the scenes that are prepping? Like, hey Rhonda, here's some things you want to, yeah they prep me behind the scenes, and then I go in and do it. Or, I bought an office space, right? I had never done commercial real estate in my life. I didn't even know. And the guy who was selling it was a commercial real estate broker.
I didn't tell [00:21:00] anybody that I was doing the meeting because I wanted to go in and just say, hey, thank you so much for the information. I'm happy to make a swift decision when I have all the info. I need to do a little bit more research, blah, blah, blah. Again I put these situations in my life.
Women are going to come out of the divorce process and, for those that I'm working with, the goal is for them to feel more confident, to know how to ask the questions, to lean into that. I think we do have to lean into our intuition. Right? I mean, there is something innate about that helps us.
We have to be willing to ask questions, and we need to be willing to say, you know what, I'm gonna make a decision, I'm gonna take the risk, and if I make the wrong decision, it's okay, because I learned from it, and then I'm not gonna do it again. Like, I think we put so much pressure on having to make the right decision, but sometimes there's more than one right decision.
Barb: Well, after women are divorced and now they're in charge of their own financial future, making their own financial decisions for themselves, possibly their family, their children, their future. What are some practical steps that women that [00:22:00] suggest women can take to create a solid financial foundation on their own?
Rhonda: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple things. I mean, one is, thankfully, right, we live in a opportunity now where we can take advantage of technology. So there are some really great apps. I mean, they can check out some of the budgeting apps, which again, there's always a front end. But once you do, again, there can be a little bit of autopilot with that.
So, apps are great for budgeting purposes. I think that's really helpful. I think the other piece of it is for those that are, have minor kids or are still after the divorce is over, are dealing with some of those kid related expenses. Again, there are some great apps for that where they can actually, record the receipts, upload them into the system, and then generate a report so you can see who owes who what.
There's one that I like in particular. It's called Decomply, and Decomply is based out of the creators out of New Jersey, and it's simple, it's easy to use, it's minimal investment each month, and you [00:23:00] can pay within the app almost like a Venmo feature. So it then keeps track of the paid expenses, and you can email yourself from the app a report.
that then you print out and it says, Oh, hey, well you spent this much and, co parents spent this much and here's the difference. And so this person owes this, person X for the month. And it's just a really great way to take, all the work out of having to try to manually do all those things.
I think the other thing is, thinking about who their post divorce team is, like who are the people, the legal? And even the emotional. I mean, just because, the divorce is over, it doesn't mean that there isn't going to be what I call a post divorce storm cleanup. So there's a lot of stuff that still needs to get done.
Accounts need to be split. Estate planning often needs to be redone. Houses maybe need to be sold. Whatever. There's a lot of kind of that post divorce stuff that needs to be handled. But, for women that are going through it, if they can use the divorce process as a way to increase their confidence so that when the divorce is over, they're like, man, I've done a lot of the hard work, and now it's just a matter of implementing some of the [00:24:00] things that I learned at a whole new level.
I've had lots of women who reach out, after the fact, like Rhonda, I bought a car, I bought a condo, I opened a bank account, like all the things that you guys talk about, it's like they're doing it, right? And they're celebrating those little wins along the way, and sometimes it's the big wins.
Maggie: There's just so many growth moments over that time and it's each one, you know, you got to be uncomfortable to have that growth. But you know, buying that car, getting those, you know, kind of wraps in under your belt. It's, it's so important at any age, really in any kind of predicament, just anything.
You know, I remember buying my first car and it's like, whew, we went through that, you know, like I do feel more prepared and have some notes for next time. So we are always learning, but I also love that you shared the kind of those apps and those tools to, avoid any conflict, but really bring the facts and the numbers and a common ground where everyone can come together and really be, you know, about.
for the best of the children, not just like you owe me money, but you know, this is how we're supporting our kids. So I think those are some great tools to kind of [00:25:00] take in, you know, post divorce and through that transition. I mean, there's so much to clean up and Like you said, that estate plan, I mean, you don't want something to happen and then everything go to your ex especially if you don't have kids or something you share.
So you want to make sure that you're really protected through and through with those accounts and that estate plan and just making sure your name is on everything.
Rhonda: Yeah, absolutely.
Barb: Awesome. So to wrap up this amazing conversation, we have a question for you, and that is, Rhonda, what does financial freedom look like to you?
Rhonda: Financial freedom to me looks like the ability to have options, right, to be able to invest in the things that are important to me and to my family and to have options in, where my kids go to school or, what we do for vacation or where we live, I mean, I think at the end of the day for me it's options.
Maggie: Awesome. Yeah, that's a great one. Well, we thank you Rhonda for coming on and sharing your expertise today. Of course, all your information will be in the show notes. So [00:26:00] everyone can check it out and reach out to you. And we're excited for all the women that this is really going to help empower over 2025.
So thank you for coming on today.
Rhonda: Yes, Maggie, Dr. Barb, thank you so much.
