Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Salary Negotiation Secrets from a Pro with Tami Palmer
What if you could ask for more, without second-guessing?
In this episode of Women in Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About, we dig into one of the most overlooked tools in your professional toolbox: salary negotiation. Whether you’re gearing up for a raise, considering a new role, or just tired of leaving money (and energy) on the table—this one’s for you.
We sat down with Tami Palmer, who brings 15 years of experience in staffing and HR. Tami offers insights, advice, and tactics to help her clients navigate the grey zone and get results. She’s been on the other side of the hiring table, and now she’s sharing exactly what women need to stop selling themselves short.
Tami breaks down the four pillars of her coaching work, why women miss out on money and opportunities (and how to change that), how to answer the salary question with strategy, what to say—and what not to say—when negotiating, plus powerful scripts and mindset shifts you can start using today.
Episode Highlights:
00:39 The Power of Asking for More
01:38 Reflections on Negotiation
05:53 Tami's Background and Expertise
08:44 Empowering Women in Negotiation
12:46 Common Mistakes in Salary Negotiation
16:32 Navigating Salary Negotiations
16:52 Effective Phrases for Negotiation
17:46 Flexibility and Benefits Beyond Salary
19:52 When to Negotiate and When Not To
21:59 Understanding Your Power in Negotiations
24:07 Building Credibility Through Negotiation
27:26 Mindset Shifts for Confident Negotiations
29:33 The Value of Your Expertise
This episode showed why women need to negotiate because women don’t ask, and caring for yourself financially is part of caring for everyone else. But what does it actually look like to put yourself first when you’re a MOM and used to being the provider, planner, and caregiver? Join us July 10 for Money Talks and learn practical ways to protect your future, lighten the financial load, and prioritize your goals without the guilt. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!
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Maggie: [00:00:00] Since we're talking all about negotiation today, let's just open up with my first negotiation story,
Barb: Well, let's hear about it.
Maggie: I just remember I was working like job to job like jumping around and so this company was like offering me like a salary position and. I needed the job. No matter what the offer was, I really needed the job.
But that was just, the time. And so I remember they, I was like talking with you and trying to, just talking about negotiation. Like no matter what it was, we were gonna get, negotiate. And I felt like I was a little, like in a loopy zone, like, I don't know, I just needed the job. So it doesn't matter what it was.
And then ask. Yeah. And then, and then I was like asking for more, which like didn't really make sense to me, but I was like, we're doing it, so I remember they gave me whatever the offer was and. I remember I was like, well, I'm working on my MBA, I have this experience, and I asked for like $20,000 more.
I still to this day, can't believe I did it. And they're like, alright, we'll, we'll get back and we'll we'll [00:01:00] talk about it. And they came back and they're like, so we can offer you. The, I think it was like a 10 grand more here and then we can give you a five grand bonus in three months. And I was like, yep, sounds great.
I need a job. And I was like, shook that. Like, just that conversation got me, 15 grand over like a, three months period of time. And I was just blown away how like. Easy. It was, in like a real nerve wracking kind of way, but I also felt like a little loopy. Like I just needed the job so bad.
So it just, I don't know, I don't know who I was to do it, but I knew they weren't gonna like, recline the offer. And so it was crazy. And then one day I was talking to this other woman there and somehow I mentioned my salary and she was like, shook about how much I was getting paid because she's been there for many years and I think she was getting way less and.
I don't think she negotiated to start, but I was like younger, I was working on my MBA and all this stuff and I kind of felt bad, I was like, maybe you should get in there and negotiate your salary, but it's [00:02:00] hard to do just like on a Wednesday versus like when you're getting the position, you know? but I was like pretty stoked that I did that, and I was like, wow. They were low balling me because. I got so much more, you know, I was just,
Barb: did.
Maggie: yeah. And so I've still been, I've still been riding that high. And that's my negotiation story. I don't think I've negotiated a job since. 'cause well, you're my boss now.
And so we both do the budget and know how it rolls out. So there's not much negotiating there, but yeah. So whenever people talk about negotiation, I'm like, it's easy. Just go in there and ask for 20 K more, see what happens, throw some spaghetti at the wall. And that's, and that's my tip on how to negotiate.
Just,
Barb: Well,
Maggie: yeah,
Barb: you have to be brave, right?
Maggie: yeah. I remember nearly shitting my pants.
Barb: Well, you have to have your information, right? You have to have some information. You have to have some cred behind why you're asking for that money.
Maggie: Yeah, and I thought it was like a pretty low ball offer to get started, so I was like, whatever. I'm gonna go in and ask for more, and. I [00:03:00] remember feeling a bit more comfortable that it was like this younger woman. It wasn't like this old stodgy man. I don't know why, but that made me feel more comfortable.
But I did feel like I had the credibility, like most of the credibility, like I was working on my MBA, I wasn't done, but I knew in like less than a year I'd be done. And there wasn't gonna be like a time for negotiation at that point. So. I was pretty stoked. You know, I'm not gonna lie, I was pretty bummed when I got that five grand bonus three months later.
And then I realized I took all the taxes out of it. So it was like two grand and I was like, where'd all my money go? But that's a different story. But yeah, ever since then I was like, everyone should negotiate 'cause they're not gonna take the offer back. And I was like, well, even if you give me what you originally offered, I still needed the job.
So.
Barb: Right. But I don't think you should go in with a sense of desperation.
Maggie: No, you probably shouldn't.
Barb: That's not, that's not a good
Maggie: I don't recommend that portion. But it's fun when you do it. [00:04:00] You're like, wow, that was pretty, I was pretty baller. I,
Barb: it's fun when you win and you felt like you won, right? Like you
Maggie: I did.
Barb: You put your values there and it stood up for yourself, stood your ground, and got brave. I don't remember the conversation we had, but it sounds like you went in there and asked for what you wanted and see what happens.
Maggie: Definitely like a lot of mental scripting, practicing it. I remember just like walking the streets of Chicago just kind of like sing in my head, just going through it. But you just gotta do it. You just gotta say the thing.
Barb: Yeah, be brave. And like you said, five minutes of sweaty palms. You never know. You walked away with 15 grand.
Maggie: It's the best. 15 grand I've got, easy, easy, sweaty palm. Five minutes. Well, yeah, I'm excited to dive into this conversation with Tami 'cause I know she's gonna give some like scripts to help. Kind of have that conversation, which is always super helpful when you mentally practice and actually knowing what to say.
Super helpful, especially from someone who's worked in hr, who's been on that other side of the table, who knows what they [00:05:00] kind of want you to say. So we're gonna get everyone the, the insights. So in case they need to go negotiate or when, when they need to go negotiate, they got all the juice, they got what they need.
Barb: Yeah, she's got the inside scoop. We're gonna hear it from Tami. These negotiations for salary will also help you negotiate other things in life. So I say, let's get started.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don't talk about.
Maggie: Tami, we are thrilled to have you on the show today. Before we dive in, could you tell us a bit about yourself, your [00:06:00] business, and where you're from?
Tami: Sure, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here today. I'm actually in the Chicagoland area in Park Ridge. Moved here 13 years ago now. I spent the majority of my professional life in Colorado, so I'm kind of half and half. I spend a lot of time out there as well. I like to say that there are.
Kind of four pillars to what I do. Primarily, I'm a career and life coach. I spent the bulk of my career in recruiting in this, the whole world of staffing both on the corporate side and on the agency side. And now I really love helping people figure out what they wanna be when they grow up. But also just, those people that are.
I'm in a job. I've been here for 15 years. I think I want to change. I don't know if I wanna change. I don't know where I would go and oh my God, my resume hasn't been touched. That whole hot mess situation. I really like to help people with that.
Maggie: it's an undertaking for sure.
Barb: yeah, and a lot of people are needing that, that help these days. I'm finding.
Tami: Totally. So that's the primary part of my [00:07:00] business. In addition to that, I'm a writer. I've got my books here. That's been a passion of mine since I was a kid. I actually started off life as a fiction writer. I've moved away from that at the moment. I'm doing some nonfiction, but that's my, my.
Happy places is when I can be writing and I lead women on retreats. I just got back this week from a women's retreat up in Wisconsin. Those I will say are just kind of a personal indulgence. I wanna go on retreat. So I made them and I take women and I found that women enjoy them too.
Barb: Wonderful.
Tami: And then and then a big initiative I've got going on right now is I'm building.
The Professional Moms Community Network, which is a nationwide organization of local community chapters. I run the Park Ridge Group of Professional Women Connecting. So that's everything from. I need a plumber to, I got overlooked for a promotion. I need some emotional and support around this issue.
We have a very vibrant community on Facebook. We have in-person meetups and we are actively growing this [00:08:00] network and looking for chapter leaders in communities across the country.
Barb: Wow,
Tami: I know it's a lot. the four pillars. 'cause it's like end this, end. This.
Barb: Yeah. That's fantastic though, and it sounds like you are really into helping kind of women grow and network and really finding kind of their happy place, especially with the retreat focus as well.
Tami: Yes. A big, I definitely go to the woo side of life, and I will say that my purpose, my North Star is definitely around empowering women, and so it presents itself in a lot of different ways. One of which I'm really excited to be here today talking about how it pronounce presents from the financial side of women.
But yeah, it gives me a lot of outlets for that.
Barb: Good, good. Well, we're so glad you're here today because I know we're really gonna talk about. All of your expertise around negotiation, which is so, so important for women. I mean, we talk all the time about how women [00:09:00] lose out because they're afraid to negotiate or they don't know that they can negotiate.
And really everything is negotiable, right? We just have to learn and be brave enough to know that we can do it. So, but tell us first, like what. What brought you this passion around helping women negotiate their worth? Where did this come from?
Tami: Well, I think it's, it's all part of that greater piece of women are so disempowered and. Watching it impact finances and we all know the statistics. Seven, women earn 70% on the dollar to men. And understanding and seeing it as a corporate recruiter and watching the men negotiate and seeing women not negotiate really hi, hit a chord in me of we've gotta do better.
And a lot of it is just not understanding where their power is or that they even have power. And so it's an education piece for sure.
Maggie: I think [00:10:00] that's so interesting of like you being on the other side of the table. So you see everybody that you've talked to, like who is negotiating, who's not negotiating, how they're going about it, and reading their emotions on their face while they do it as well. I think that's just an interesting perspective as we talked to so many people who talk about how to negotiate, but they weren't always in that HR role to know what it looks like on the other side.
Barb: So, what are the stats around what women are leaving on the table? Is there, I mean, I just think it, it's compounding right? If you take what the first offer is and you don't negotiate over time, that's gotta have a compounding factor of hundreds of thousands in dollars over your career, and maybe not even just money, but other benefits that you lose out on.
Tami: Oh, for sure. And I, I don't have the numbers, but you're right, there is a, of course, there's a compounding effect around this and you're also losing out on, growing that level of responsibility and exposure [00:11:00] to. The real decision making that's happening, right? And so the more complacent you are and just putting out this energy like you're just grateful to have the job that's sort of what you get.
And I think a lot of what I noticed are I have this vision, I don't even know how many. People work in cubes anymore. It's kind of an outdated thing. I think you're either at home or you're in a hotel space type setup. But I have this vision of people like, well, I'm just gonna hunker down at my desk and I'm gonna get in early and I'm gonna work really hard.
And then they'll notice me and I'll be rewarded, and it doesn't happen that way. And then they become disillusioned and checked out and mad and frustrated, and no one really taught them how to properly advocate for themselves.
Maggie: Yeah, I mean, no one goes around later and just gives 10, 20, $30,000 bonuses just 'cause they see you're doing great at what we expected you to do. As great as that would be. It doesn't really work like that, which kind of seems like that's what we are kind of almost expecting.
Tami: Well, [00:12:00] that's what we hope it'll be this sort of egalitarian setup and then we're really disillusioned when that's not the way the world works. Right? And then that annoying person who just. It's a brown noser and knows how to work. The boss gets raises, but they're not even doing a good job. Right? But they know the system, right?
They understand that it's the relationship and that it's the ask, and they can get that, and that you can't just come in and do a great job. There's a level of social awareness that plays into this as well.
Barb: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that. Let's unpack that a little bit because women are almost self-sabotaging. So the first one is they're just assuming, right? If they get in early, work really hard, they're gonna be compensated and rewarded for that, but that's not gonna happen. So what are other common ways that you see women sabotage their own salary negotiations?
Tami: The big thing I see is how they answer the question on the front end of, what are you looking for? [00:13:00] Most people kneejerk respond, well, this is what I'm currently making. Right? Because it's uncomfortable and you don't know what, you don't wanna price yourself out. And so one of the things I do in my coaching is I teach people this concept that I read about, I think in a Forbes article.
Called your happy price. And so there's the number that you're like, yeah I take the job. And then there's the like, yeah. I take the job and then there's like, like, oh my God, I want this job. Right? You've got your low, medium high, and so you need to figure out what that is before you go in and then just share more of that mid to high range, so you try and go for it.
Right? And I know, we're probably gonna talk about like scripts and stuff in this conversation. But that's the way we go about getting to where we wanna be is setting it up from the front end. Because when someone tells me, oh, well I asked for, I told them I'm currently making a hundred, but the real reality is I'm underpaid.
Well, you can't really negotiate on that later end when you already set that expectation. [00:14:00] 'cause then you're doing a state and switch with them. That just pisses 'em off.
Maggie: It's hard just because we've learned a lot. Like I remember in some HR classes about, you can't just bring in, well this is what salary.com says people at my price range should make, so I should be making that. And it can just be weird to throw out like a $50,000 more, even though you know you're underpaid.
It seems really scary. It seems like a big leap. And then I know some people kind of have this fear of like. They're just, if I ask for something too high, they're gonna just come back and say, nevermind, we don't want you for the job anyways. They're not just gonna give you a lower salary, they're just gonna take it all back.
Which we, which has never been true. I've never seen that actually happen, but it's so often we have that fear and I've had it as well. And so it's hard just to go in and kind of throw out that number when you don't know always. What they're, you don't, you, it's hard to read the room. You don't know what they're looking for.
You don't know how high you can go. 'cause you don't wanna say like one 50 and they're like, we are gonna pay the other guy 200, so sure. We'll pay you one 50. So you don't want it too low either. So it can be [00:15:00] very scary to be the first one to say a number. I feel.
Tami: Definitely. And that fear of getting the offer rescinded. Is so strong that keeps a lot of them from even going into negotiation. And to your point, unless you're a real jerk, offers don't get rescinded. Especially if you enter with, I have this talk I give where I discuss the three points of success is tact, assertiveness, and humility.
Okay? So that's like the trying of great leadership. If you balance that out and bring tact and grace and assertiveness to a negotiation and they rescind the offer, you don't wanna work there.
Maggie: Right. Right.
Tami: people,
Maggie: it sucks after like all the interviewing process, you know that, you figure that out then, but at least you figured out that then, and not eight months down the line when you're in the job, you are done, job searching, all that stuff. Your resume, you don't wanna figure it out then at least, before you committed that, nah, that's not the vibe.
Barb: Yeah, you're interviewing them as much [00:16:00] as they're interviewing you as well, right? You want it to be a win-win all the way around.
Tami: right, right, right. And to Maggie's point, like accepting a job and then knowing it's not the right thing, and then realizing you have to go back into a job search, like people will stay longer than they should. Yeah,
I probably do that in relationships too, because they don't want it, to look bad on their resume or they don't have the stamina for another search,
Maggie: It is draining. So I mean, I see both sides, but yeah, it's easier while you're in the searching area. Just keep searching rather than, go to some something that, it's not a good fit. So let's talk about those scripts. What are some like powerful phrases or questions women can have in their back pocket to to have when that negotiation moment arises?
Tami: Well, getting back to that that happy price conversation, like, let's throw out the numbers as 80, a hundred and 120 just for the sake of it. So what I would tell the person is say, well, first of all, if they ask you for your salary, you should always say, can you share with [00:17:00] me the range for the role?
The budgeted range for the role. 'cause you always wanna try and get the other person to talk first. That's just like salary negotiation 1 0 1. If that doesn't work or you're really feeling pressured, what I would say is, I'm targeting roles that are somewhere between a hundred and a hundred, 120,000.
I understand that's the going rate for these opportunities. You don't have to prove that. You don't have to, to your point, bring up the salary.com data where you found that, and then you can say. But I, I do have a little bit of flexibility around those numbers for the right opportunity. So that implies you could go lower, but it gives a sense of where you're going, and that's a phrasing.
I just, I feel like really works well and isn't too limiting and starts to at least get into the conversation.
Maggie: And something I like about that is even if you do end up going lower, which is like ideally not what you want, there's usually ways people can kind of work around that of like, so we can't pay you a hundred K, but we can add like more days [00:18:00] off or more. Benefits of some sort or a bonus in three months.
Like have something a little bit more lined up where we can't give you that as the salary line, but we can give that to you in different ways, and we know that we're gonna have to kind of fluff up the package to make you wanna be here.
Tami: Right, and often the thing that women want almost more than anything, is flexibility in their schedule. They wanna be able to be at. Pick up time for their kids. They wanna be able to be at different things and sometimes that becomes a piece of it too. Like for the right opportunity, I will go lower, but that right opportunity has to really allow me to create the lifestyle I want.
Barb: So Tami, let's say they do say, well, we can give you 98. So we can't write, we can't quite hit your a hundred mark and you wanted a hundred to 120. We can negotiate a few more vacation days. How does that sound to you? Would you take the first
Tami: I, I might say thanks for sharing that. Would you be open to a one-time [00:19:00] sign-on bonus?
Barb: of, would you put an amount down?
Tami: I usually leave it open just to see, if they're offering me 98 and I wanted a hundred, and I said I want a $5,000, $10,000 sign on bonus. Like, I'm not in ballpark, right? Like they're pretty much saying we're not gonna get you to a hundred. And so maybe that's 2000 maybe. I doubt it would be more.
But I like to have that as another thing to ask because that's. That's kind of comes out of a different bucket in some ways. They're not committing to it year over year. Usually there's a string attached that you have to stay for a year pay that back if you leave. So I often tell people, if you're gonna accept that bonus, maybe just stick it in your savings and don't spend it, and on the off chance you have to repay it.
But that I've seen some success with.
Barb: Got it. So I guess my question is, do you take the first offer or do you typically negotiate your first offer? [00:20:00] I.
Tami: I don't like black and white answers, thus my company the gray zone.
So I don't wanna mislead your listeners and say always negotiate. 'cause I think there are times you don't. I think you really have to read the situation. I've seen situations where someone wanted 150 and the offer comes back at one 70 and more vacation than they wanted.
And I'm like, this is good. You do not have to negotiate. They wanted to, they worked hard to get you and they didn't wanna take a chance of you saying, no. Now you're just looking greedy. If you're like, well, what I really would, I'm gonna negotiate. So, no, you don't always negotiate. But if you feel like.
They're not presenting their strongest offer, that there's more opportunity on the table than talking with someone and kind of identifying what does the right language and approach. And I do think this is something you wanna practice a little bit ahead of time and bounce off a friend or a coach.
I think you should give it a try because one of the things people don't realize, men I've coached [00:21:00] men who are white male executives in their fifties who don't like negotiating and don't wanna negotiate. So this is not just a gender thing. This isn't just women, it isn't just race.
This is a human problem. Oh shoot. And I went down that rabbit hole and now I gotta get back to my other trip. Dang it. But I think, yeah, I totally lost it. Anyway, that was an important point that needed to come out.
Maggie: Yeah. That's fair. And any of those money conversations is, I mean that's why we have this podcast is just talking about money can be awkward, it can be uncomfortable. And sometimes, when they're more, it seems like sometimes they're more prepared 'cause they know what they can offer and you're just kind of coming in trying to be as best as you can to respond on the fly to these things.
It can be very nerve wracking. But I always think like, wow. Five minutes of really sweaty palms could lead me to have 10 to $20,000. Like that is the best sweaty palms I've ever had. Yeah, so share what you got.
Tami: was the whole point is, okay, so here's the thing. When they've presented [00:22:00] you with an offer. You now have the power, and this is what people don't realize because think about it from their point of view. You've gone through some kind of a process.
They've identified you as their final candidate. If you say no, they either have to choose their candidate B, who wasn't candidate A for whatever reason, or they might have to start over from scratch. Back to new resumes, back to new candidates. I just gave myself chills, like back to the whole thing all over.
And that is the last thing they want to do. And if giving you 5, 10, 20 more thousand dollars stops that eight week to 12 week cycle from happening, yeah, sure. Have the cash. So that's the part that we don't often realize is that once the offer comes to us, we are now in, we now hold the power. We don't wanna be jerks.
But we now hold the power and we don't see it that way, and that makes me sad.
Barb: It's a very good perspective when you think about it. I mean, when you go into an interview, you [00:23:00] think that person on the other side of the table holds all the power, but really. They need you as much as you need them. That's why they're putting money on the line and they've done all their work and their advertising and spent a lot of time and money to find you.
So they need you as much as you need them. It should be a win-win situation. It shouldn't be an argumentative type, negotiation. It should be let's come to something that's really agreeable, that works well and feels well for the both of us, because you're gonna be working for that organization and with those people in the future.
Maggie: And so I know you mentioned how, or we kind of talked about, they're not gonna take back the offer. And if they do, it's not a fit. And so it is kind of really getting that mutual fit for both people. And I know before when we were talking about this, that you're saying asking or negotiating actually builds your credibility as a person coming in.
So can you explain, why. That is, and especially when we're taught, that we're always, too much, there are quotes happening right now if whoever's not watching this, but because I also [00:24:00] think, building that credibility before you go into that job is so important as well as they get to know who they're signing up for this position.
Tami: Yeah, I have a really fun story I like to share about building credibility, and it actually doesn't have to do with salary negotiation. It has to do with negotiating a trip. So we're not always negotiating money, we're also negotiating perks. So I was in corporate, I was in my mid twenties and I was working in hr and I was doing all the staffing for our AMEA office, the Europe, middle East, and Africa.
And I. And the managing director decided it would be fabulous if I could come to England and do the recruiting there. I'd never been to England. Total Anglo file. My daughter's named Elizabeth, like, you don't understand how badly I wanted to be in England. So I reached out to my boss, the HR director, and she said, I'm so sorry, honey, I can't, I have no budget to send you.
So then. I marched myself into the VP of sales office and I said, I would like you to pay for me to go to England 'cause I'm doing all the staff hiring for your [00:25:00] team and I'll date myself. He said, don't you have Skype? Can't you use that? I said, yeah I'm doing that. It's not the same.
This was early two thousands. And and he was hemming and hawing and I said, look, I do all the hiring for your salespeople. And I don't get any kind of President's Club. And President's Club is what salespeople who really produce well, that's the reward they get. They get a trip with their family to go on these, wonderful trips.
And I don't get that in hr. This is my club right now. I got his attention. I. And then I just thought, well, why not? I'm, what's the worst that's gonna happen? I was already at, no. Right. So then I said, oh, and my sister's in Ireland for the summer, and I wanna tack on a trip to go see her while I'm over there. So I'm just going all out, right? Because he is like this bigger than life guy who's really charismatic. And I thought he might resonate with this. And I've got him like, doubled over laughing. He's like, and then he looks up at me and he said, go get your ticket. And so my first [00:26:00] trip to Europe was on the company dime to do this recruiting trip, but the way he interacted with me from that point on was totally different because I had the chutzpah to go to him with a big ask, big to me, and he saw in me a level of command, a level of assertiveness, and I had a completely different relationship with him from that point on.
Maggie: I love that. And it shows that you're like I'm more than the job. I also wanna see my sister. I know how these things could connect. Like I know I have this plan to get there. You really thought about it. It's not just like pay for me to travel there. Like, it's like I see how these things can connect, I can make it happen.
I can also fulfill this other personal endeavor. Which I think when you. Get some more personality behind your employees rather than just like this person who clocks in and clocks out. You learn so much more about them and you're like, wow, she's a traveler. She does wanna go get it. Like she, family's important to her.
And [00:27:00] she's gonna make it happen. And that's the kind of person you wanna hire is someone who's gonna make it happen.
Barb: Yeah. That's awesome.
Tami: I think a lot of my own stories of negotiating are a lot of what fuels me to inspire others. Like I figured it out, I'm doing it, and let me teach you how to do it.
Barb: Right. So for women listening right now who are kind of scared to push back on an offer. What's one? I know it's like a mindset shift, right? We have to think differently. What's the mindset shift women can feel more confident about when they're entering the negotiation table? I.
Tami: Okay. I, the biggest thing I want to communicate to women is when you are asking for more money or higher bonus or whatever it is, are not taking that money out of that person's personal account.
Maggie: True.
Tami: And what you're taking it out of is that big [00:28:00] company budget that gets divided into random slots of pie and they just shift some of the pie to you and less to something else. And it's all arbitrary dollars in a massive budget, and it's not personal and you're not impacting that person by the ask. And I think because we're asking one person in the back of our brain, we have this thing that like someone's gonna hurt because I ask.
Maggie: Yeah, that's a great point. And. So often it, so many things with money always feels like you're taking it out of somebody else's slice of pie, which doesn't even mean, it's not like you're taking it outta their bank account, but it's not even out of their salary either. It's out of a marketing budget, it's out of tchotchkes that they're buying for the office, like who knows what.
Like it's not even. It's not out of anyone else's pie. It's out, out of this. Yeah, like you said, this arbitrary money. And so, I think that is a great mindset to have because when you are having that one-on-one [00:29:00] conversation, it does feel so personal and like it is, they are the one writing the check, which they might be, that might be their job, but it's not their money.
Barb: And I also think sometimes women think, well, if I ask for the money, I'm gonna look. Greedy, or I'm gonna look know, like, am I really worth this amount? I don't even have the job yet and I'm already asking for more money for it. And, kind of all this negative. Mind, crap that goes on.
And really we need to walk into the, to any kind of employment opportunity with all of our positive juju behind us. It's kind of like when women, this happens all the time, are low balled or asked to do their work for free and or afraid to. Pay or charge what they're worth. Even entrepreneurs, it's like, look, you went like this one.
Financial professional's, like sometimes I do kind of feel guilty what I'm charging. What some of these people for, which takes me just about 20 minutes to do. And I said, but look, think about it. went to [00:30:00] school, you have all these certifications, all of these years of study, you are an expert in your field.
If they had to do it, it would take them far more than 20 minutes. And they wouldn't be able to even do that work. So it's not, they're not, you're not exchanging time for money for that. You're exchanging all those years of education and all your competence and everything that you know, and all of your, your hard work and your expertise and your specialty for doing that work.
So you need to think bigger rather than smaller when you're going into these types of negotiations.
Tami: It is such an important thing to remember is you're paying, they're paying for everything you've invested in your career, in your education, where you've got to 100%. And the thing that makes me the most sad, and I see this all the time, is women a negotiation with a, I need this because. I need to get braces for my kids because my husband has health problems, [00:31:00] right?
Like there's this sort of C clause that gets attached to it as the why I need to do some house repairs. I love to turn that around and say, do you think someone who was confident, and that's usually a white man, would put that clause on it when they go into a negotiation, right? Like, listen to what you're saying.
Because I don't care if you're gonna go get an Audi instead of a Honda Civic. It doesn't matter what you're using the money for, right? And you are allowed to go indulge and not just pay for the bare minimum of what life presents, but none of it is connected to what you're gonna do with the money and why you need the money are two different things.
Barb: Right.
Maggie: Yeah that's a great point. And everyone knows we need some money to survive, so they get that. But what we do with the addition doesn't matter. We still put in all the, we still have all those credibilities, we still put in all that work and education, and we still clock in from that [00:32:00] nine to five.
So we should get paid just the same as everybody else.
Barb: Yeah. So ladies negotiate, right? Listen to the expertise from Tami. All the nuggets of wisdom she shared here today. It's so important, and I always think it's good to give yourself a pep talk or call your BFF and have her or him give you a good pep talk before you go in and pump yourself up.
Maggie: You also gotta be wearing an outfit that makes you feel like you're gonna slay. Because if you're wearing something that makes you feel frumpy, you are not gonna negotiate as well. And that's just from personal experience?
Tami: Do the Amy Cuddy power pose, if you remember her.
Maggie: Exactly.
Barb: the super, the superwoman. Right.
Maggie: I.
Tami: super woman. I tell people, go in the bathroom when you're interviewing and do it in the stall before you go into the interview.
Maggie: You've got to, so Tami, there is a question that we like to ask all our guests on our show before we wrap up, and that question is, what is your own definition of financial freedom?
Tami: Oh,
I.
Love that question. [00:33:00] financial freedom to me is kind of what we just talked about. It's the ability to make the decisions of where do we wanna spend our money. For me, financial freedom is the ability to travel when I want. It's the ability to walk into a grocery store and get any item I want and not think about is it on sale?
Can I afford it? to make decisions that are, I don't want a newer, fancier car because I wanna do something else. And it's. An ease of living without the worry and stress attached to what is available to me.
Maggie: It's a good definition right there.
Barb: That's awesome.
Tami: I love what you ladies are doing. I'm so excited for this.
Maggie: Yeah, this has been a great conversation and I'm so excited that this is going out. As I know jobs are crazy. People are, getting back and interviewing a bit more, and I just wanna make sure that everyone is negotiating their worth as it's so important and it stacks up. Good or bad, but we want it all to be good.
And so [00:34:00] we thank you Tami for coming on and sharing your expertise and these nuggets, and I can't wait for some of these women to, to use these, scripts that you've even provided so they can go and feeling even more confident in these interviews.
Tami: Thank you so much for having me. I'm
Maggie: Yeah.
Barb: Thank you, Tami.
Maggie: We'll talk to everyone again soon.
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