Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Are Prenups the Ultimate ‘Love Insurance’? with Jessica & Brandon Norwood
Money and marriage, two things that can bring couples closer or tear them apart. In this episode, we’re joined by Jessica and Brandon Norwood, founders of The Sugar Daddy Podcast, to talk about the money conversations every couple needs to have if they want their relationship (and their finances) to thrive.
Jessica, a tech consultant and the breadwinner in her family and Brandon, a financial planner share their journey from friendship to marriage, how they navigated big money differences, and why they believe every couple should have a prenup or postnup (they call it “love insurance”).
Whether you’re dating, newly married, or celebrating decades together, this conversation is packed with real talk, relatable stories, and smart strategies you can put into action right away.
00:00 Intro
01:44 The Origin of the Sugar Daddy Podcast
03:59 Discussing Money in Relationships
10:45 Prenups and Postnups: Love Insurance
14:51 Practical Financial Planning for Couples
20:21 Dream Framework for Couples
20:49 Understanding Money Emotions and Experiences
22:43 Building a Joint Vision and Money Mantra
27:33 Balancing Financial Roles in a Relationship
29:48 The Importance of Communication
31:59 Common Money Myths for Couples
36:22 Defining Financial Freedom
The Norwoords prove that when couples lead with honesty and shared intention, money becomes a tool. Whether you’re splitting bills, building a legacy, or figuring it out as you go. Ready to take those shared values even further? Join us for Money Talks on October 2 to learn how to align your investment with what matters most to you! Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!
Follow & connect with Jessica and Brandon:
Connect with us!
Resources
- Have questions? Click this to check out our expert Q&A for tips from industry experts, tailored to help women address their most common financial concerns.
- Subscribe to our newsletter to receive financial tips delivered weekly here!
- Explore our free guides to help you on your financial journey
Barb: [00:00:00] Maggie we title this podcast, women and Money. The shit we don't talk about is because there's. So much we don't talk about money. It's just so true and especially when we're in relationships and everyone says, you need to talk about money. You need to have a budget. You need to talk about how you're gonna manage your money when you get married, when you're in relationship.
And it's so much easier said than done, right? if you meet someone, you fall in love and you really like that person and you see some red flags about money, you might try to look past those, right? And just say, yeah, well we'll figure it out or something, and maybe you will, but maybe you won't.
And so oftentimes people will say to us, we don't really talk about money. My husband handles the finances or I just give the money to him to pay the bills, and sometimes women will say, I'm in charge of all the money and my husband wouldn't know how to pay the bills. Sometimes it's the opposite, [00:01:00] but there is very limited times that we've met a couple, like we've interviewed today on our podcast where they have really healthy money conversations and more importantly.
It stems from the fact that they both came out of families of divorce.
Maggie: definitely took, like we know what we don't want, but sometimes that's still hard to understand what you do want. You need to practice having these conversations, but you need that second person to practice with and you don't know what their responses are gonna be, which you can't control that.
Sometimes I don't even know what my own response is gonna be. And so you just have to learn how to work with that. And you don't know am I doing the conversation wrong? Are they doing it wrong? Is wrong the right word? Like, why is this not aligning? And it can be really hard.
And I think they've had a very successful conversations, and I know they said that they started from that friendship place first before that relationship so it's not like you're trying to impress that person. if you really love someone and you see their kind of [00:02:00] financial situation, how you might be like, yeah, well they had to overcome this or overcome that, or this is the reason.
And put some, like I explanation behind it. Yeah. Justification, which could be true. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, they have student debt and no one paid for it for them. Like, I get that. You know what I mean? But it could also be these other things where it's like, eh, you're being a little lenient with that justification right there, how many things can you justify until you know your red flag flies? And so
it's hard.
Barb: yes, however. There's a way through it. I think if you have really good conversations and you really understand how to have financial conversations together as a couple, which they have done so well. And they've really given some gems in this podcast And money conversations are full of, I think sometimes shame or guilt or uncertainty, and you have to approach them without any of that, with just, money's a tool that we have.
Sometimes there's a limit to it and we have [00:03:00] to figure out how to manage it together. But, I just think there's a wealth of information in this podcast that it has to offer our audience about how to have these conversations, the importance of 'em, and some ways to think about not casting judgment on one's feelings.
Maggie: And I think it all day also show how much stronger you come through on the other side once you have these conversations and really build that muscle and make this a consistent thing. How much then, like, love, care, support, and like foundation there is of real strength in that relationship. So I'm excited for everyone to dive into this.
I know I learned some great nuggets and am inspired. So I think we should just get started.
Barb: Let's do it.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help [00:04:00] you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don't talk about.
Maggie: Welcome to Women and Money, the shit we don't talk about. And today we have another duo with us, so we're always the duo usually. But today we have Jessica and Brandon Norwood on, and they are the founders of the Sugar Daddy podcast. And so we are thrilled to have this conversation. But before we dive in, could you both introduce yourself to the community a little who you are, what you do?
Jessica & Brandon: Absolutely. Thank you for having us first and foremost. Excited to be here. I'm Jessica. I'm sure you can tell by my voice that I'm not Brandon. No judgment. I do know a female Brandon actually.
I am a wife, a mother. I work full time in the tech space as a consultant. I've been in it for going on over a decade at this point, and I am actually [00:05:00] the sugar daddy in our relationship, so I'm the breadwinner of our household. I also am the person who still works that corporate nine to five. So I have the benefits and the 401k match and the stocks and all of those things that bring me a lot of joy and happiness and financial security so that my partner over here, Brandon, can do what he loves to do and he does that for himself.
So we are kind of split in that way of one of us being in corporate and one of us being an entrepreneur. I'm Brandon Norwood and I am a financial planner. I'm the owner of Oak City Financial. I have been. In financial services, this is my 14th year, and majority of people that I work with as far as from a client standpoint are what we refer to as elder millennials.
So individuals that are anywhere from like mid thirties to early forties is the primary demographic that I work with.
Barb: Wonderful. I wanna hear about how the Sugar Daddy Podcast got started and how did you come up with your name?
Jessica & Brandon: [00:06:00] That is all. Jess, I'll take that one. Brandon gets a lot of weird looks when we tell people that our podcast is the Sugar Daddy podcast and they assume that he came up with the name, but it was actually me. And it sounds really cheesy and corny, but it actually. Came to me in a dream.
And really the premise is how to be your own sugar daddy, right? So how to either if you wanna become one or not need one, really is what we're aiming for. So if you are a woman and you wanna be your own sugar daddy, we are all about that. So he wanted to talk about all things finance at the end of really long days.
Like I said I'm in consulting, I'm on the phone, I'm on video calls 10 plus hours a day, all different time zones across the globe, and quite frankly, I don't wanna talk about finance at the end of the day. And so I told him he needed a different outlet for these conversations. And we played around with social media and videos and newsletters and social media's.
Just not, it's [00:07:00] not his thing for me, I'm a little bit long-winded. There's a lot of good things on social media, but I feel a lot of stuff is missed because there's such snippets and you need the longer version of it to have a better idea of is it applicable to your specific situation? Yeah, and so the podcast really, we were just kind of constantly talking about, well, what could it be?
How can you get away from the clickbait titles and really have meaningful. Discussions and reach quote unquote the masses. And so I had a dream one night about the podcast. I put a note in my phone and forgot about it for weeks. And then we were on a road trip and I said, gosh, I think I put something in my phone that I wanted to talk to you about.
And there it was the Sugar Daddy podcast. And it's been going for this year will be three years. Yeah, we definitely had to do it together because me, by myself would be a terrible podcast. She's way more entertaining than I am.
Barb: Well, it's fun to have that banter back and forth, right? And Brandon, you're the financial professional. Jessica, you are the professional in [00:08:00] tech. And as a couple, I mean the questions about money, in a family, all those conversations are so important to have. And so we're gonna dive into that today.
So often at purse strings, we get asked that questions, how do I open that conversation with my husband, or We never really talk about the money, or I hide my purchases in the trunk until my husband leaves, and then I run them in the house. There's too much sneakiness that goes on because they haven't really talked about how we're gonna manage our money.
So let's dive into some of that.
Maggie: yeah, I mean, as we know money is one of those top reasons couples split. We hear this all the time. What's some of the most common arguments you've seen and how do couples kind of flip these conversations to actually bring them closer instead of kind of drawing this wedge in between them?
Jessica & Brandon: I would say the number one reason is actually just not having the conversation in general. So therefore, you have individuals who maybe are married, been married for a few years. And they've never actually had a conversation to understand how each of them views money [00:09:00] and how each of them wants to use money to build a life that they wanna live.
And unfortunately I honestly wouldn't say that money is the top reason that people get divorced. I would say a lack of communication is probably the number one reason. And then when that happens, if you have money issues that just makes every other issue that you may have that much more of a big issue.
Barb: Are there ways that you have those conversations with people that you're working with?
Jessica & Brandon: so first and foremost, you have to be open to having a conversation. So one of the things that I try to present myself when I could tell that those conversations haven't been had is being that third party kind of a mediator where I'm the neutral. I'm not on either person's side, I'm just trying to facilitate a conversation so that each person can understand the other person's view.
And mainly what it boils down to is that. Most of the time, you're not gonna have two individuals that grew up with money the same way. So money growing up in their households were two different ways, and that's the biggest influence on how you interact with money as an adult. So therefore, as an [00:10:00] adult, now you might have two individuals that view money differently, one, to use it differently, but they haven't talked to each other about it.
So for example, like you said, the hiding the purchases, one person might be quote unquote more spender, one might be more of a saver. And then now they're kind of butting heads because they're not on the same page.
Maggie: And so do you guys feel like you have always talked about money in your relationship, or is this something like when you went more into personal finance or was this like a first date conversation?
Jessica & Brandon: I think we had the benefit of starting off as friends, and so we had just all kinds of conversations without the. I need to impress this person, kind of as the undertone. So we knew a lot about each other because of the year and a half of friendship that we had before we started dating.
We were both products of divorce. Brandon's parents divorced when he was five and my parents divorced when I was in my late twenties when Brandon and I actually got together. And so both products of divorce, but very different experiences, obviously going through that at different [00:11:00] times of our lives.
Overarching theme was we don't wanna do it like our parents did it. And so we very quickly came together and basically just talked about all the things we knew that negatively impacted our parents' relationships. And we said, these are the things we wanna do differently. We also came from different socioeconomic background, so to speak.
So one example is I had a hundred thousand dollars in student loans and Brandon. I don't know, maybe had 2000 from law school. So there was a great disparity there and that was something that I knew I was going to have to pay off these loans for a long time. And so when we kind of started merging our lives, we talked about what does this look like?
Does this come out of my paycheck? Do we combine it? We both were homeowners when we moved in together, so I actually ended up moving into. His house and I was renting out mine. But we did have the conversations of, Hey, I [00:12:00] don't necessarily wanna like pay you rent and make all these home improvements and buy new furniture and do all these things.
And then what happens if our relationship dissolves? Now you have. All the sweat equity and financial equity that I've put into this home and what do I get for it? And so I do think that we had a lot of the harder conversations early on that most people typically don't. But really for us it was rooted in.
If we are gonna get married, we're only doing this once, so let's do it right. And if I can't talk to you about everything, then we probably don't need to be getting married in the first place. I think also too, like when we first started dating, I was 30 and she was 28. So we were at a certain phase in our life where we, I would, we were looking for marriage.
So I wasn't dating to date, I was dating to find my wife. And I think that makes a big difference in regards to how you go about it, because. I think some people look at the dating phase very different than, oh, I'm just dating and now I'm gonna move into the [00:13:00] marriage phase. In all honesty, it merged for me.
Like when we were dating, I definitely had numerous Freudian slips where before we even got engaged or married, I would introduce her as my fiance or my wife. And so I think having that mindset early on, knowing that she was my person, we already had, like I said, we had those conversations early 'cause we were already planning on merging our life.
Maggie: Yeah, I love that. And I love that you've had those conversations as I see in that age range, so many of my friends kind of had that same kind of house scenario and it's like, alright, how do we split this? Because again I'm not just paying rent in this house. It's so different if we stay together versus if we end up separate.
But it is kind of that mindset going into it is like, we are here for the long run. And so how do we wanna really make this a stable foundation and not just, a house of cards that might fall down.
Jessica & Brandon: and also too is having those conversations early on that are deal breakers. How you manage money and how your viewpoint on it. If you're really hard set and you guys have two different views, more than likely that relationship is not gonna work. So why waste your time?
Barb: Yeah. [00:14:00] And some people think they can get past that they're like, yeah, he's a suspender. But there's a lot of, and somebody said at one point, and I've mentioned this before, is what you see as a red flag becomes a billboard in your marriage. It does make sense. And those are big billboards.
When you're talking about marriage and you mentioned the student loan debt, and that's big that has a big impact because that can impact a lot of things in your marriage. Having a large debt like that and the fact that you came clean on that sometimes people don't because they're afraid to mention that, but you need to get all your cards out on the table, and that's a lot of times why we say people should have.
Prenup through that conversation is when you really have to come clean about where you're at financially. What do you think
about a prenup?
Jessica & Brandon: we just completed a postnup. 'cause it wasn't on our radar to do a prenup. Yeah. It wasn't on our radar back then. But just for context, when we started our friendship and then started dating, Brandon was [00:15:00] managing, a shoe store and I was in education. So I taught for seven years.
Our salaries at that time were pretty equal. I mean, everybody knows teachers don't make very much. So it was fine for the both of us. But then when I moved to North Carolina, I actually switched careers completely and, ended up in tech, which is why I'm now the breadwinner.
At that point we really didn't have a prenup on our mind. It was just Hey, these debts are mine. This debt is yours. Your house is yours. My house is mine. And it just kind of. Made sense that way. But now with the education that we have we know that it is absolutely just part of a comprehensive financial portfolio.
We would encourage all of our friends who are already married to get a postnup and anybody who's not yet married to get a prenup. And here are the two things that we've kind of started saying about this is you already have a prenup if you're married, right? Your state gives you one. So you might as well write your own rules, which is really what a prenup or a postnup.
Is, [00:16:00] and I think the other thing that's important, which is why we didn't consider it to begin with, is we weren't millionaires. We weren't rolling in the dough. We didn't have a ton of assets. And so I think the misconception is, I'm not a celebrity. I'm not a millionaire. What do I need a prenup for?
And really right now we're in the prime of our earning years. And so what you're essentially doing is you're protecting what you are growing and building, whether it is together or separate. And so we, put pretty basic things into our postnup. What are your debts? What are my debts? What are our combined debts, for example.
The mortgage is solely in my name. He's on the deed, but financial responsibility technically falls to me. In the event that we were to dissolve our marriage in our postnup, we put that it is both of our debt, it is both an asset and a debt on our line items. So he would be equally as responsible for either selling the house, buying himself, buying me out of my share if he wanted to stay here.
All of those details are now worked out. And so [00:17:00] I think it just makes sense for us. It gives us peace of mind. We're calling it love insurance. It's just like your car insurance. You hope to never need it, but you're grateful for when you have it. And you might as well make your rules while you still like each other.
Love each other, respect each other. That way you can have calm, rational conversations, not when you're already at capacity and you don't wanna look at that person's face anymore. That's not the time to come up with those details of what's important to you. I also think it's really important because we have children, we have two young children, and when the couples get divorced, that's probably one of the worst times of their lives.
So you want to do what you can beforehand, before you, to the point where you guys maybe, obviously maybe not be on the best terms that you want to have everything organized and set out how that post-divorce would look like, rather than fighting with each other. And then that might bleed over into the relationship that you're having with the kids.
So we went ahead and got all that out of the way. Everything is spelled out where God forbid something happens when [00:18:00] we do get divorced, that's already taken care of and we can then focus on the kids because. what was really going with effect.
Maggie: Wow. I love that. And we talk a lot about prenups and we don't talk too much about postnup, so I appreciate you guys kind of sharing that perspective and how you guys are kind of changing your path as you learn as well in these journeys as. None of us know everything before we get started, as much as we'd love to.
And that doesn't show like, oh, now we're headed for separation, but we are doing this because we love each other so much that this is why we're kind of going through and doing this and doing it for our kids. So that's just, that's amazing and appreciate you sharing your story there.
Jessica & Brandon: It really opens up the conversation too. So we normally, we always talk about money, so it was a little different for us. For other people who maybe don't, this is one step to help them have that conversation. With professional, I mean, they're not a financial advisor, but they're at least advising on what they see their clients doing and how their clients split things up.
And like one thing that came up is for example, Brandon is eventually going to get a much larger [00:19:00] inheritance than I would ever get. And so making sure that those assets remain separate. And then, well, what if we do want to combine? What if he does wanna splurge on a crazy, amazing family vacation?
Let's say $20,000 into our joint account. Like now we have a process behind that of needing a notarized letter. To say on his free will, he is now putting this money into our joint account and it now becomes a joint asset. And so again, it's just a little bit of that extra protection.
I give the example, my mom when my parents got together had quote, unquote more money than my dad. She took an early inheritance from her dad. To put down onto the house. When they purchased their house, then they got divorced. And to this day, my mom will still bring up that whatever thousands of dollars that it was that she put down towards the joint home, which was totally fine at the time, but not now that they're divorced and we just didn't want those situations if [00:20:00] it's joint money.
It's gonna be joint money. Here's a process behind it, it's gonna be notarized and, it's official and I don't wanna hear about it again in the future. So it's just those things that we can help mitigate if we were to dissolve our marriage
Barb: Yeah, you really learned by some of the mistakes that they made and you were so conscious of it, and I love that. And it shows that both of you know exactly where the money is, where the money's going, and what would happen at any point in time. Which is brilliant because too often we hear the husband died or filed for a divorce and one of the couples, one person just had no clue about the money.
And that's the worst case scenario. So kudos to you. This is what we're trying to get in front of women. The brilliance of what you're doing is fantastic. So listen up ladies. This is a really smart idea. I mean, it doesn't mean you're gonna get divorced, it means you are ensuring your marriage is gonna last forever.
So that's fantastic.
Jessica & Brandon: [00:21:00] I mean, there's so much technically she got the entire house, so I, yeah, that's a whole nother podcast episode. But it's just those things, it's that trauma that people my parents got together young, they were 19 and 20, and then got divorced when they were adults with adult children.
I mean, it just, it's, it wasn't ideal and there were no divorces ever. Quote unquote fair. Never nobody feels like they got what they deserve, and so by putting a prenup or postnup in place, you can help mitigate some of those feelings because you put the rules in place while you still loved each other.
And also too, in scenarios where there's a vast difference in how much partners make, you could start to kind of understand like another partner's fear. Like for example, I'm gonna use a stereotypical standpoint of like say the man makes more money and the wife maybe stays at home and is raising the kids.
And she's not actively working outside of the home. She might have some fears in regards to if they got divorced it wasn't bringing in income. Maybe it's been outta the workforce for a certain number of [00:22:00] years, so it's gonna be harder to get back into it, and you can kind of have those conversations to, if it does happen, make it as equal as possible.
Yeah, like a requirement to contribute the same amount to retirement accounts, someone with the spousal IRA, stuff of that nature. Think just to keep things a little bit even we even put in there not to get too detailed, but one thing that we talked about, again, trying to get into those nitty gritty details.
Who moves out? How much time do you have? Okay, now you need to start over. In, our case, it's gonna be Brandon moving out. He's gonna have to refurnish some new living situation. So what does that look like? Because at that point, I'm not gonna care where he's sleeping, but I will still care about my children.
And so we actually put a stipend in there from the joint account that he would then be able to take to furnish a new apartment or a new house, et cetera. Because again, you're buying two new beds for our kids and a sofa and bar stools. And I mean, life is expensive. And so where does that money come from?
And we decided it would come from our joint account [00:23:00] again, to take care of our children, to make sure that they have. As minimal of a bumpy ride in this as possible. And that they still get to come home to a great home environment, no matter whose home it is. And so those are again, it's really just about you creating your own rules and figuring out what's important to you and putting it down on paper.
So we feel great about it. We, I mean, we nerd out on these things, which I know makes us probably the rarity. But for us it really felt like a great process to get it all out even down to what happens if we have an aging parent that needs to move in, how do we handle that financially? I mean, we're in that realm.
We see it all the time early onset dementia or Alzheimer's that comes out of nowhere and now you have a family member living with you like that will rock your marriage. So let's put a plan in place of what, does that look like for us, and how does that affect our finances and the goals that we've set out for each other.
So I would say as a financial planner. I try to think about what is the worst case scenario [00:24:00] for pretty much any situation that you could come up we wanna, most often, you're not gonna always have the worst case scenario, but if we could put a plan in place that is able to weather the worst case scenario, more than likely you should be good in the outcome.
Maggie: Yeah, I mean everyone always asks like will I be okay especially in a divorce? And it's like, now you know you will be okay. You'll have the money for the furniture. Like you have these processes already set, so you will be okay. I really wanna dive into this dream framework for couples and for their money conversations.
And so could you kind of break down what this means? And I know there's a vision part and so why this is more important than just numbers, but also kind of the vision you have in your relationship.
Jessica & Brandon: So the Dream Framework, it's an acronym, so dive, reflect, engage, act, and manage. And it is for couples to have better conversations around money. Brandon always likes to say the numbers are the easy part. And so really what the difficult part is are the emotions that people carry with them when it comes to their money whether it's positive or [00:25:00] negative in most cases
people do not come together with the same money experiences or the same money passed. And so people are bringing their shame, their trauma, their baggage into their relationships. And really you need to work those out first. And so dive is really important because it's an opportunity for you to reflect on
what has happened in your past? Why do you feel the way you feel about money? What instances helped shape your, environment, and the way you operate today? I'll give a quick example. When we went out to eat as a family, when we were younger, it was absolutely no appetizers, definitely not a dessert, and everybody's drinking water, right?
And I hated that. I hated. Going out and it seemingly being a fun experience, but then having nothing but restriction. If my dad ordered more than one beer at dinner, he definitely was gonna be getting a side eye from my mom. Right? And again the experience is then like, just, it's not fun.
[00:26:00] I'd rather sit at home with a PB and j and a cup of water than to go out to dinner and you tell me what I can and can't order. And so that's something that. I brought with me into our relationship. Brandon knows if there's gonna be a budget around dinner or a restriction on what we can and can't order.
Just leave me at home. I don't want any part of it because I've already had that in my past, and so it's something so simple. That most people probably don't even think about or process, but we have these experiences that shape us and we bring those with us. And so really understanding why somebody is the way they are with money and their feelings around it, whether positive or negative, will really help you understand your partner and have those conversations.
And so the key theme around the dream framework. Is to build a joint vision of how you want your life to look. And of course, we do need to fund whatever life we want with money, 'cause life is expensive. But [00:27:00] some people value, things. Maybe it's designer items, maybe it's the big house, the fancy car, whatever that is.
Like no judgment. Figure out what that is and hopefully you can find a similarity between you and your partner that will help you. Make those tough choices when it does come down to eventually needing to budget and look at the numbers and understand your, cash flow. But finding that alignment is really important.
And so you almost wanna come up with a shared, not just a shared vision, but maybe like a money mantra or a mission statement for you and your family of. What drives you and what you're working towards that can ground you when it's time to make tough money decisions and have those tough conversations,
Barb: Do you have a money mission statement or mantra that
you have in your family?
Jessica & Brandon: We do ours is always going to be around raising good humans and traveling the world. It's so much when you have kids, like it's the most beautiful and exhausting thing you can do. [00:28:00] So really our mission is always going to be around. Helping our kids be the best that they can be and helping them see the world because we strongly feel like when you know that there are people outside of your little bubble, it makes you a more empathetic person.
It helps you appreciate different cultures and just aspects of how people live. Also brings on this component of being grateful, right? When you can see. That other people don't live in the privilege that we live in. I think that is a really important thing to show our children.
And so our, money always goes to travel. That's where we, spend the bulk of our money. We were both, really fortunate to travel the world when we were young. Jess was born in Germany, lived there the first 10 years of her life, so she traveled all over Europe. As a child, I was fortunate enough to travel when I was young, overseas,
all of those memories as a kid. I think helped factor into how we view the world and sense of being more open-minded more caring, and we wanna make sure that we instill those in our [00:29:00] kids because I feel like the most closed-minded individuals, unfortunately, are the ones that are at least traveled.
Barb: Yes, I would agree with that. Wonderful. I'm, curious, Brandon, do you use this framework, this dream framework in the work that you do when you work with couples?
Jessica & Brandon: we are now starting to incorporate it 'cause the dream framework is something newer that we came up with. And so I would say previously I probably did some bits and pieces of it. Because it all depends on the scenario because honestly, my ideal scenario when I'm meeting with a couple is that they're already on the same page because that's gonna make my job significantly easier.
Because in all honesty, to a certain degree, if you're coming to me as a couple and you guys haven't at least had some of these conversations and you're not on the same page, or you've tried to have these conversations and it's not going well, I might not be the best stop as a financial planner.
You might be better all suited for a financial therapist to help work through those things first, and then once you guys are on the same page, then you come to me. Well, in the times that you've had couples who are clearly not on the same page, [00:30:00] one of the people wants to move forward, and the other person is
totally resistant and you're not gonna be able to move the needle or be able to work with somebody when they're coming to you in a partnership, but they're not working in a partnership. And through my years and experience I've gotten much better at recognizing that early on and just saying, Hey, maybe I'm not the right fit for you.
Whereas earlier on in my career I would try and it was just unfortunately a waste of time from both sides.
Barb: Yeah. good for you that you're not just trying to fit people into a, square peg into a round hall because people have to find their way and be ready,
Jessica & Brandon: Oh yeah.
Barb: do this kind of work.
Jessica & Brandon: Oh, definitely. feel as though maybe some people think that they come to me and I just quote, unquote do all the work and solve all their problems, and that's not it at all. It is a 50 50 partnership and you have to be ready and willing to do the work. Like I said, when you're in a relationship, both of you guys have to be willing and ready to do the work.
Maggie: That's the other thing, is you're not gonna tell someone how to budget or how to spend their money or like I can give you recommendations on what you might need for retirement, but what you do day to day, [00:31:00] if you go out to eat, if you buy food and bring it in, if you travel, if you don't, I mean, that's on you.
So you can't tell people how to do that. And so that's something that they really have to kind of iron out themselves and see what's most, most important.
Jessica & Brandon: That's the first thing I say. I say, I don't tell you what to do. I have conversations with you to understand who you are as a person, the goals that you're looking to achieve, maybe some of the problems you're looking to solve, and I help guide you along this journey. But you're the one ultimately leading and making the final decision.
So if you wanna spend more on something than we had talked about that's a decision you can make. It's just, it's gonna have pros and cons to it.
Maggie: Yeah, definitely. And so Jessica, with you being the sugar daddy in the relationship, which sounds fun, but also comes with its own set of challenges, how do you kind of balance supporting your partner and making sure you're both on the same page financially?
Jessica & Brandon: Yeah, I think it just comes back down to communication. I mean, there were times early on in Brandon's business where. He's a business owner. Whatever he makes, he pours back into his business. [00:32:00] So there's that component. There's also a lot of trial and error. Some things work, some things don't.
And sometimes it takes a little while to figure it out. His income is very inconsistent, whereas mine is consistent. And so we've definitely had conversations over the years, especially as we started growing our family and things became more expensive. You know you had 202 in daycare at one point.
I mean, that is a huge financial Exactly. Expense that about $35,000 a year. I mean, it was a lot. And so there was times where I was like, Hey, I think I might need you to do this on the side and you need to come join the nine, nine to five crew over here. And so it really just comes down to when I feel overwhelmed or if I'm feeling.
A certain way, just communicating that and saying, Hey, have you thought about this? What about this? I worked for a Fortune 100 company. Up until last year and I was part of one of the massive mass layoffs. Now, [00:33:00] thankfully, I had a really great severance package, but of course the first thing that came to mind is everybody in the family is on my insurance.
So if we needed to switch that over to Brandon's, that's gonna be a very expensive cost as an entrepreneur. Right? And so when you talk about. The burden that was, that felt like a big burden for sure. I like the stability of a steady paycheck. I like commissions and bonuses and I like my 401k match.
And in the past when I've had stock options and things, those are great. Those have helped us do all sorts of things. In our life that help us with our joint vision of how we wanna live life. Or we built this house that we're in two and a half years ago and there was more flexibility in having that steady, when you're not getting laid off, nine to five.
And so it really just comes down to communication. I mean, I texted him that morning I did not see it coming. And I said. Hey, I just got [00:34:00] laid off and he was like, I'm coming home. He was at the gym and I said no, it's fine. And I took a day to process and then once I started getting all the paperwork for the severance and stock options and all the things, we sat down and we had a meeting and we said, all right, here are our deadline.
Here's what we need to know about insurance. Here's when COBRA kicks in, here's how much that's gonna cost. And we just, we sat down, we outlined it, we wrote down questions that we needed to get answered. Thankfully we were able to pocket a lot of the severance as savings because I was able to find another role pretty quickly considering how competitive the environment is.
But we just talk about it. We have to, like, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I have to tell him because he's my partner and he has to be able to pick up where I'm unable to process or cope, or if I'm having a, little bit of a mental breakdown moment, like I need him to be there to support me in that and vice versa.
It's not my responsibility. To manage how he [00:35:00] responds to my feelings. It's my responsibility to make sure he knows that I'm having feelings. We have a thing where we're, you don't get to filter what you say to each other based upon trying to manage the other person's emotions.
Yeah. Well I thought you were gonna feel, or I thought you were gonna be angry or I, you don't get to control that. Yeah. What you control is you need to be honest. 'cause when we got married we said we would be honest with each other. So that's your role. How I respond is none of your concern. And we've also always said that like you are entitled to how you feel regardless of what I think.
So I could be like, in my mind, like I don't, she's overreacting in my head, but like you were entitled to feel how you feel and vice versa. Yeah, all feelings are valid even if you don't understand them.
Barb: Love it. So, so mature of you. I mean, not everybody would come forth with
that thinking we'd be like, you just get over it. But so Brandon, let me ask you this question. As a financial
planner, what's one money [00:36:00] myth? Couples absolutely need to drop if they wanna stay sane and build wealth.
Jessica & Brandon: I think too often people wait for the perfect moment to get started, and then once they actually get started, they always think that it's gonna be perfect all the way through. And they worry too much about making errors. The reality is that there's no perfect moment.
Now. is the perfect moment, honestly, to get started. If you haven't and you're gonna make errors, you're gonna make mistakes. That's the reality. Nothing is going to, no matter how much time and planning you put into it. The first thing I always tell people is that the plan that we're kind of put in place now.
It's gonna be wrong. I'm just letting you know, because there's gonna be things that happen that we didn't foresee happening. But the idea is that we have now built in the habit of being able to plan and when things come up, we're able to pivot. So first and foremost, I'll just say getting that idea of your mind that everything's gonna be perfect and a close second, I would say is unfortunately I've seen, is that I've had too many people come to me where we have a great meeting and I've opened up their [00:37:00] eyes to a lot of things.
In that moment, they have some type of like feeling where like I have a, feeling of rejoice. I have a feeling of I can do this, I can do this, and they want to try to do it again by themselves. And I'm like, you gotta let that, it's like, what is different than in a 30 minute conversation that we had when you go back to being by yourself.
So the part of that is knowing yourself and there's no shaming getting help, but you can't continue to do the same things and expect a different outcome. You gave them so much hope that they're like, I can do this now. I've had this happen quite a few times recently, and now I've gotten more in the habit of being honest with people.
I'm like, I'm glad that we had a great conversation. I'm glad that you took a lot from it. But here's the reality. Nothing's changed in the 30 minute conversation that we had. You don't have a plan. You don't have a strategy. Nothing's changing your habits. You don't have somebody holding your hands. You, just feel good about accountable.
Just feel good about a 30 minute conversation. That's it.
Barb: You were just too good at inspiring them, Brandon. was the problem.
Maggie: Yeah, that's a great example is so often people find that they can do it by [00:38:00] themselves. And if you could, you probably would've already done it, right? And so having that extra boost, it's great this isn't just a Tony Robbins speech where we're doing a little rah and moving on walking across the fire.
If you really wanna get there and secure that retirement, I mean, build that team and have them walk that walk with you.
Jessica & Brandon: The hard reality is that there's a very small step into the population. There are true DIYers, and by that I mean you have the time, you have the will, and you have the knowledge on a consistent basis. It's not a one-time thing. You're gonna have to consistently do this through the rest of your life.
So do you have all three of those through the rest of your life, or would you be better served with having somebody help you with those?
Barb: And I would argue and add to that, I mean, everything's changing, right? Laws change, taxes change, and you need to keep up with that or else you're behind, you're not making the best, most effective, or efficient financial decisions for yourself.
Why
not
work with the experts?
Jessica & Brandon: and also the thing is too, is everyone has a blind So everybody has their own emotional attachment to their money. And I even have [00:39:00] conversations with other friends of mine that are financial planners about our own planning to make sure that I'm not. Attaching too much of my emotion and I'm not missing a blind spot.
Maggie: Yeah, we see that all the time as planners need their own planners
Jessica & Brandon: Multiple minds are better than one. Well, and when you're just always looking at the same thing from the same angle you lose that broader vision. You need somebody to come in with fresh eyes and to really. See what's going on. It's when you're like writing your paper in college and you're reading it for what you wanted it to say, but then you miss the typos because you know what you wanted it to say.
It's the same thing. So you've gotta get your roommate or you know somebody to read that paper and point out the flaws because they didn't know what you wanted to say, and they'll see it clearly.
Maggie: Well, that explanation hit, home way too hard right there.
Jessica & Brandon: I always joke my, college roommate, I should have half of her degree because I did so much editing of her work.
Maggie: We all need a partner like that. 'cause trust me, I thought it was so clear. No, [00:40:00] but you guys, I mean, have such a great story and you've built this incredible partnership in both life and finance and we appreciate coming on and sharing your story and these great pieces of wisdom. And we do wanna ask you both the same question we ask every one of our guests on the show.
And that would be, what is your personal definition of financial freedom?
Jessica & Brandon: we're probably gonna say the same thing. For me, I think it's time. The more time that I can control and not be beholden to somebody else's needs, wants, schedules, meetings, et cetera, the more I've quote unquote made it with my finances. And we are trying to be fully work optional in the next eight to 10 years.
He loves what he does and so do I. So if that means we continue to work kind of on our terms, then that's great, but we also want the option to not work if we're ready to. And so for us, it really just comes down to time freedom and making our own [00:41:00] schedule on a random Tuesday morning at 10. And when you have kids, that's when it really hit me how fast times goes.
We have a 7-year-old and a 5-year-old, and honestly it feels like yesterday they were just babies. So being able to control our own time and use it the way that we want to use it and spend it with the people that we wanna spend it with is our number one goal.
Barb: That's for sure. As I can tell you, sitting across from my daughter, time flies, right? That's for sure. So time is an excellent answer.
Maggie: And so what's the best way for our listeners to stay connected with you guys? Of course we'll have everything in the show notes, but could you just kind of share with our listeners.
Jessica & Brandon: So you can go to our website, www.thesugardaddypodcast.com. You can get all of our episodes there or on Spotify, apple, anywhere you listen or where you listen to purse strings. We will be there as well. We drop new episodes every Wednesday. And then on social media, we're at the Sugar Daddy podcast as well on all platforms.
And then also my financial planning website is. Www [00:42:00] dot Oak City Financial us.
Maggie: They didn't let you name it the sugar daddy finances.
Jessica & Brandon: it does. His website does link to the podcast as well, so you can find him there. And then you can find Oak City on our social media as well. So we're linking back and forth in all the directions.
Maggie: Perfect, Well thank you Brandon and
Jessica & Brandon: Jessica coming
Maggie: And sharing your expertise. So be
Jessica & Brandon: So be sure
Maggie: into their podcast as well. Give 'em a follow on social media and let
Jessica & Brandon: on social media and.
Maggie: that you listen to this episode. And until next time, we'll talk to everyone again soon.
And so be financially fearless.
Outro: You've been listening to Women Money, the shit we don't talk about. Now it's time to take what you've learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to [00:43:00] resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless.
