How to Reenter the Workforce After Divorce with SheQuip

You have been out of the workforce for years, you are in the middle of a divorce, and someone just told you that you need to get a job. Where do you even start?

This week we are sitting down with not one, not two, but three powerhouse women behind SheQuip, Pamela Lisle Smith, Carol Savvas, and Kate Rapier. SheQuip is a career reentry service built specifically for women coming out of divorce who need to get back into the workforce with confidence, strategy, and real support behind them. 

Together these three are doing something that is genuinely needed. They are taking women who feel broken, overwhelmed, and completely out of the loop and helping them see that the skills they have built while raising kids, managing households, running fundraisers, and navigating life are absolutely valuable in today's marketplace.

In this episode we get into the real stuff. How to rebuild a resume when you have been out of the workforce for years. Why LinkedIn is non-negotiable right now and how to actually use it. The free certifications and courses that can refresh your skills fast. How to negotiate your job search support right into your divorce settlement. And the story of a woman who said she had done nothing, only to reveal she had organized a fundraiser for over 1,000 people.

Carol's reminder is this: what if it is easier than you think? Start walking. Get those 

comfortable shoes on. The mountain in front of you might not be as steep as it looks. Join us for next week's Money Talks “What Happens to Your Mortgage When You Divorce?”. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!  

This episode is supported by Marguerita Cheng, CFP®, RICP®, CDFA®, CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth. Marguerita works with women navigating divorce to bring clarity, confidence, and control back into their financial lives. At Blue Ocean Global Wealth, the focus is on helping women understand their options, make informed decisions, and feel empowered about their financial future, especially during moments that feel uncertain or overwhelming. If you’re going through divorce and want support that’s clear, grounded, and centered on your long term wellbeing, you can learn more and connect with Marguerita at www.blueoceanglobalwealth.com and follow her on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and Youtube.

Disclosure:

Securities offered by Registered Representatives and Advisory products and services offered by Investment Advisory Representatives through Private Client Services, member FINRA/SIPC, and a Registered Investment Advisor. Private Client Services and Blue Ocean Global Wealth are unaffiliated entities.

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Transcript

Maggie: [00:00:00] Sometimes we meet women going through divorce, and they're like, "I've only been a stay-at-home mom." Only. I've only raised a couple humans, only kept them alive, only take care of a couple loved ones while they were in hospitals, only brought them to the appointments, only ran the PTO meeting, and only volunteered once a week.

That's it. That's only what they did.

Dr. Barb: All that unpaid labor and skill.

Maggie: Managing people, keeping them alive, being a nurse, a chauffeur, all the things. And then they come and they're like, "I don't know. I don't have skillsets for a job."

Dr. Barb: I think you do.

Maggie: I think you've done a couple things for sure.

Dr. Barb: Yeah, for sure. I know, and you know, it's interesting,

 every day I see on Facebook women saying, "Oh, I need a job," you know, "I'm going through a divorce. I gotta get back into the workforce," all of that. My heart goes out to them 'cause I [00:01:00] feel such desperation coming through those messages, you know? Like they're really spiraling almost and and like you say, they feel not equipped to go into the workforce, and they feel like they don't have skills to offer.

But we know better, don't we, Maggie?

Maggie: We do know better because they were doing a lot of things. We just have to figure out the fancy wording to them to make 'em for a job resume.

Dr. Barb: Yep, and we know a company called SheQuip who does just that for women navigating divorce, knowing they need to get back into the workforce. They give them all the steps along the way to really be a mirror to them around what their skillsets are, what they do have to offer, how they do add value, and they get them back to work.

Maggie: And just to take a little step on my soapbox real quick. The money, I get like divorce is expensive. You're hiring the professionals, you got the attorneys, you're maybe moving, all the [00:02:00] things. But the money you pay to help someone get equipped, do your resume, get a job, and negotiate is well worth it once you get a salary.

Even if you paid someone $1,000, they helped you get a job, and they help you negotiate to get five grand more. First, you saved time. You also got another five grand or four grand if you know, it's net positive. So don't be afraid to make the investment in yourself because, yes, we can do all these things alone, but we don't have to.

Dr. Barb: No, and when you have the experts like them that have the secret super database and all the this is how you do it, so you're efficient and you're not frustrated, oh my God, so well worth it.

Maggie: Priceless. So just think about that the next time you're making an investment. But I'm excited to share SheQuip with you and how they can help women going through divorce get back in the workforce. So let's get started.

[00:03:00] Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don't talk about.

Maggie: Today we don't have one, not two, but three guests on the podcast today. So we got a lot of ladies talking, which we're so excited about because what Pam and Kate and Carol, this gap that they're filling is such a need that I have been seeing almost every day, honestly. So I'm excited about this conversation. 

So, Pam, you wanna get us started of kind of who you are and what you ladies do and all about SheQuip? 

Pam: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us. SheQuip has been something that's been on my [00:04:00] mind for a number of years. I am a divorced woman, and my background, as is Carol's, is in retained executive search. And for decades, she and I have worked with placing top C-level executives, primarily in the life sciences, but also in academia and a number of industries. And because of that, we have, We know what good looks like in the marketplace. We know what employers are looking for and how to help people present themselves in their best manner. over these decades, of course, when people hear we're a recruiter, we get a lot of families and friends saying, "Can you help my cousin out?

Can you help, you know, find a job?" and that's-- We don't find people jobs. We, in this role, we equip people to find jobs, and we are parlaying our executive search experience into equipping women who have come out of trauma to understand that they have value and that even if they haven't worked for a while, the things that they've done have value in this marketplace, and help them [00:05:00] develop a strategy for re-entering the market with confidence.

And Carol, has joined me in this, I'll let her introduce, as has Kate, and both for very special reasons. 

Carol: Thank you Pam. 

Yes, so it's been a wonderful 30 years or so that Pam and I have known each other and worked together in executive search. I fell into search accidentally. I really had an academic background and probably would've been teaching in a university somewhere. My passion, which it's been since I was 15 but small town in Michigan, introduced to Asian literature junior in high school.

Went to Western Michigan University for undergrad, where the requirement was you had to take one course in Asian something. You could take it was called non-Western world, or you could pivot toward the Asian lit. Took the Asian lit again, and wouldn't you know it? This is life. You just start walking and Windows are wide [00:06:00] open, doors are wide open to whole new universes.

And what happened was this professor, English professor, knew the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama He asked the Dalai Lama , " Will you send a Tibetan scholar to teach because our Sanskrit scholar's gonna go on sabbatical for a year?" They sent Ngawang Thondup, our kid from North India.

And wouldn't you know it, Dr. Schaefer, call him Bob, one other student, and myself, we became the only three three students of, of Ngawang Thondup our language professor. And then after one semester, I was the only student left. Three years I got to study with him as his only student, working on my master's.

 And they were trying to get me into linguistics, but my heart, my passion was about a 12th century woman philosopher. Very unusual to find female teachers anywhere then in the '70s, but I happened to have an advisor she was professor of religions who had written a [00:07:00] wonderful book at Western. She inspired me, Nancy Falk.

 And from there, I was so happy with those studies that I ended up with a higher education master's degree with a major in Asian studies. And I was married at the time. So this is where the plot thickens. I, at the same time that I was doing this, I was putting my husband through graduate school, and that's another story, um, which we could share down the road.

But I did end up with a PhD and lots of complexities there. But I did work really hard to get a number of grants and side jobs, and after a long time in, partially in India, mostly in Switzerland with the Tibetan refugees there, completed the dissertation. And I would've wanted very much to teach.

I loved my subject matter, 12th... It was like a music therapy tradition. But my mom got sick, and I needed I needed money. I needed to help my little sister, who was in Minneapolis helping my mom, and I didn't even have [00:08:00] a teaching job. But what I did have was a phone and the ability to call all my old bosses, which is what I did.

I made probably five calls, and the first one to call back and offer me a job, I took that job, and it was executive search in Switzerland. And that's how I got started. And that's how I'm here now, and it's been a wonderful 30 years. I don't regret any of it. I got to teach, too. I taught at NYU for 16 years in the School of Professional Studies at night af And, um, I've just loved it. I've had a wonderful time. And Pam called me right at the perfect moment when I had stopped working after all those years. And Pam's idea for the company really resonated with my heart, helping women and what could be better? I have four younger sisters, 13 nieces and nephews.

They're almost all nieces, and helping little ones and big ones has sort of been a life, a lifelong journey.

Here I am. 

Kate: [00:09:00] Yeah.

And I can kinda introduce myself. My name's Kate, and I'm in Nashville, Tennessee. And Pam and I have known each other for a while, and she came to me with this idea and just said maybe a few years, gosh, four or five years ago maybe, and just had this idea. And I was like, "Oh, I love this."

Kinda helped her brainstorm a little bit. And then a few years later, she came back, and at the time when she first told me about this idea four or five years ago I was very single at the time. And then when she came back last year, I was actually going through a divorce. I was in the middle of a divorce.

And what I had already thought was an incredible idea to help women reenter the workforce, I now knew on a whole different level. And my viewpoint of my level of care and understanding for this specific woman was a totally different level. And so my background, I was a former music industry person. I was a backup singer and [00:10:00] did music in a duo for 20 years and kind of pivoted into social media, and I own my own marketing agency called Good Shift Marketing, and that's how Pam said, "Hey, can you help me get this idea off the ground?

 I've got Carol with me. We really wanna help women." I was going through a divorce, and I was like, "Yes, absolutely." And I kinda helped get the vision of, okay, what do we want this to be about? How can we get the word out? What are offerings? Like, what are ways that we can really help women? Because we're not therapists, we're not counselors, but you guys have this expertise to, like Pam said, get women attractive in the marketplace so that they can reenter with confidence, with the ability to know that divorce might have not been my plan, it might have unsettled me dramatically, but it's not gonna be my future.

And so to come alongside women and just say, "You've got this," and not only in theory, but in practicality of, hey, we actually all three have been through [00:11:00] this. We know what this is like. And so that's how I got on board. And yeah, we're just passionate about helping women reenter the workforce.

Dr. Barb: It is so necessary. And like Maggie said,

 there's not a Facebook scroll I don't go through where there's a woman saying, "Oh my gosh I need a job. You know, I got divorced." And we know statistically, financially, women lose in divorce, right? Many have to get back in the workforce, and they're feeling Not well-equipped, right?

To get into the workforce. They're feeling devastated by divorce possibly. They're still navigating how to, you know, live their life in this whole new role. And so I think what you're doing is really necessary. So tell us a little bit about your typical client that you're working with. Like, describe who she [00:12:00] is and what kind of services you provide.

Pam: Yeah. So it-- we do a, really a gamut, but our typical client, Dr. Barb, is somebody who is, already in the divorce process and is now facing that, reality of panic, of I have to support myself now. And, you know, interestingly enough, Carol and I and Kate have all had great careers, but I will never forget that moment standing in my closet holding a pair of jeans thinking, "Do I put these on my head or my butt?"

And it just, uh, that... And I'm thinking to myself, "If I'm so terrified, what about the woman who has stayed at home for five or 10 years and they have to reinvent themselves?" So, a lot of these may... You know, we have had some that are thinking about divorce and are, you know, thinking ahead and wanna be prepared before they, they take that step. but the majority of them are already in the process. you know, our business frequently will be coming from, divorce attorneys or mediators, or therapists. some of the, you know, the CDFAs or, you know, [00:13:00] the certified divorce financial planners. 

Let's take a quick pause to hear from this week's episode sponsor. Divorce can shake your confidence, not just emotionally, but financially, and in those moments, you deserve a guidance that brings clarity instead of fear. Hi, I'm Marguerita Cheng, certified Financial Planner, retirement income certified professional, certified Divorce Financial Analyst, and CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth.

I help women going through divorce gain clarity, confidence, and control over their personal finances so they can make decisions that truly support their future. At Blue Ocean Global Wealth, we focus on financial planning first because accessing competent ethical advice. Should not depend on the size of your investment portfolio.

Every woman deserves to feel financially confident, empowered, and resilient, especially during a life transition as significant as divorce. [00:14:00] Visit blue Ocean global wealth.com to learn more about how financial planning can help you navigate divorce with greater clarity and peace of mind. Now back to our show.

Dr. Barb: Yeah. They're a great resource for you, right? 'Cause those are all the people who are working with them with their moneys and in the midst, and they kinda know kind of their status and what they wanna be doing. 

Pam: One of the things, and we've not really gone down this avenue a whole lot, you know, we just launched, late, very late last year. but something that we think would probably help take stress away from the women as they're going through this is get these kind of things negotiated, in their divorce settlement.

 You know, a service that would help really equip them so that they can be financially free and financially stable with confidence

Carol: The whole relaunch or return to work is something that large corporations are very much aware of and offering programs like [00:15:00] that, we feel that there's a good basis for making this kind of request and just getting it into the settlement. So we, I think that could be very helpful for women. So we would like to explore the that possibility. 

Maggie: So I kinda wanna lean in there, Pam, of when you talked about, you know, that confidence and women who haven't really worked, you know, for years or kinda feel out of the loop, you know, they've been at home either with kids or just running the household. What actually helps them rebuild the confidence and get back in the game? 

Pam: You know, um, we, we talk about paralysis, and it's, terrifying to make that or take that first step. Um, one of the things that we do, and the first step that we take with our women is work with them and sitting back to evaluate what they've done. I think what helps most is not everybody has a resume.

If they do, it's most likely not updated. But we work with them on helping pull together a resume, and [00:16:00] then allowing them to sit back and reflect on, "You know what? I did do this, and I can still do this, and I have value." and then we have them talk about what they've done since they've been out of the workforce. you know, has it been a, You know, have you worked on volunteer projects? Have you done any fundraising? Have you organized? Have you budgeted? You know, all of those things that are marketable. We hear so much about the fear of entering the market, especially now with AI coming into play, and women being terrified that they don't have that experience and that they're not valued.

And, I'll let Carol talk in just a moment about some of the technical aspects and things to help prepare and get some of those certifications, et cetera. But, what we also hear from people that we know that are, you know, hiring managers is the collaborative skills that a stay-at-home person has. the practical skills that they have. You know, those things are kind of the intangibles that you really can't take... I mean, I guess you [00:17:00] could take a class on it, th-these women are bringing something to the market that they feel that they don't have. it, it really does make a difference

Kate: Pam, will you tell the story of working with a client and she said something like, "I haven't done anything. You know, I have nothing." And then she told you about like the hundred or three hundred person like fundraiser that she had organized?

Pam: Right. This was so funny because she did, her first words out of her mouth was, "I haven't done anything." And so as we're pulling out of her the, the things that she's done, she said, "Oh, I, I did, you know, like a little fundraiser thing." And I said, "Well, you probably had at least, what, 50, 75 people on, you know, that, that came to that fundraiser or participated?"

She said, "Well, no, I think it was about 1,000." And that was such a clear example of how devalued we can get, that we just think we're not worth anything anymore. And, we find that sad, which is why we're doing what we're doing

Kate: And I think that's what Pam and Carol are so gifted at, [00:18:00] is kind of holding up a mirror to this potentially broken feeling, you know, discouraged woman and being like, "No, you actually have a ton of skills that I'm sorry, AI cannot organize a thousand people to come to a fundraiser." Like, that is your skill set that you are bringing physically, and that is a value asset to somebody hiring.

So I think that's just a really cool perspective. 

Dr. Barb: Yeah. You know, we know that if women don't check off all the boxes at 100%, they don't feel qualified, and yet men going in will go like, "Huh, I can do some of those things,"

and they'll go in. Like, we all need the confidence of a 21-year-old guy

to go in. 

Maggie: So Carol, are there like designations or ways that they kind of improve their skill sets that you recommend before, you know, entering the workforce or kinda when they buff up that resume?

Carol: Yes a couple of things. There are lots of different courses, and [00:19:00] many of them are free, like a Coursera, different AI. But when you talk about AI, sometimes that's very scary too if somebody has no familiarity. So we can leave that aside. But most important is, I think, for them just to get started one step at a time.

 And what we like to do with the resume, helping with the resume, is to just remind them that it's very easy If, if you have your eye on a couple jobs, just simply take that resume, tweak it, add a couple. Think about where your skills match that job you're looking for, and just get those added two or three bullet points on the resume.

Pop that out. Feel free to change your story as you present We all do this every day. We talk about a different element of ourselves depending on who we're meeting. So tailoring the resume a bit, thinking about... I like to say, "I have everything I need." And then think about if that job calls for organizing, and like [00:20:00] Pam was saying our client didn't even think about the fact she had organized 1,000 people, that kind of thing.

Just gently you can equip yourself to Ace an interview. Now, if you feel like, "Oh, it's been such a long time and what can I do to refresh, to make an impact maybe with a new certification?" There Besides the Coursera, there are Google Career, many Google Career certificates that don't take much time and are not too costly.

Project management, data analytics. These are really good jobs for people who've been out of the force for a while because it it refreshes kind of what you already know, but with that new relevant current perspective. There's also LinkedIn Learning. A lot of LinkedIn Learning, it's also not long, so it's not like you're saying to yourself, "Oh, it's three years," or, "It'll take a year.

It'll cost me $5,000." I like to think of these little packages. I personally did that when I left my corporate role after so many decades. I really wanted to study [00:21:00] mindfulness-based stress reduction. Eight-week course. It was very manageable financially. It was just what I needed at the time to give me that confidence.

Oh I'm current now if I wanna go back and teach, but it's with this mindfulness instead of my more mystical Tibetan meditation, which didn't sound too relevant to the current workplace. So but it's just a, like a mini course. You can also take relaunch programs. They actually have several path forward, iLearning relaunch returnship programs we talked about, like These are bigger corporations.

I think these are just some of the mini courses you can take to add relevance and update with a certificate.

Dr. Barb: Yeah. Those are fantastic. You offered a lot of great resources that are just available online twenty-four seven. 

Carol: Just online. Oh and for also DOL, this is something I found out just recently, the Department of Labor, just [00:22:00] going on dol.gov, you actually can find many jobs right away. And I'll do a little plug for Trader Joe's, because a friend of mine was very had a high marketing role for many years in, in a consumer products company.

She got laid off along with others. She went to Trader Joe's. I said, "What are you doing at Trader Joe's?" She said, "We do everything." Trader Joe's doesn't hire you for a specific job. It hires you because they think you're valuable, and then you run the gamut of roles. I would say find companies like that, and then you don't have to have a polished resume.

You just have to have you.

Dr. Barb: Yeah. Who doesn't love Trader Joe's?

Carol: All right.

Dr. Barb: So it.

seems like the job market has shifted, especially now. I just had a friend yesterday who was in a job for eight years as a project manager, and she got laid off. And she's looking. So, you know, how [00:23:00] do you manage the ebb and flow of the workforce, especially these days? 

Pam: it depends on where she is, you know, does sh- and this is one of the things that we do with the women that come to us, is I, I think that's a great time to reflect on what you've done and what you need, and then what you want.

Some of the women that we work with, they need a job next week because they don't have benefits and they can't pay their bills, and that's a whole different conversation. and you know, a woman like that, what we're gonna do is... And, and I guess I should back up a little bit. You know, what we do, and we feel that this is so important, I'm not gonna write your resume for you, for two reasons.

 Number one, and most importantly, if I do that for you, you haven't gained confidence that you can do it. and I think it's a big confidence booster to, figure something out with us helping you, right? We're not gonna just say, "Go do it and come back." But, you know, we'll help you do that. but then, it also helps you as you're thinking [00:24:00] about it and you're writing it versus me writing your resume for you, it's going to jog your memory and help you think about things that have value much more.

 So anyway, to not digress, but, so a woman like that, we would work with her on, you know, get that resume. You've gotta have it done, right? And then putting that into LinkedIn and, and we'll help guide them in that LinkedIn, you know, getting that and formatted, et cetera. but then, we will help them look at what their priorities are.

Is it benefits? Is it compensation? Is it flexibility because you have little ones and you need to work at home some? And then help them identify places that they can start applying so that it's not such a huge... I think if you go on the internet all of a sudden and you've never done this and, "Oh my goodness, how do I look for a job?"

It's totally overwhelming. And, we can give them some ideas of what sites to go to, like Carol, even just with the, you know, government, right? and then Trader Joe's because they're known for treating their employees well and having great benefits. but somebody kind of like the client that we had who had done that huge fundraiser, she had the luxury of sitting back and dreaming [00:25:00] about what she wanted.

And your friend might be in that situation as well, and it may be something totally different, but very achievable. And then we'll help them brainstorm about industries, types of roles, and if we carry that further and they wanna continue working with us, we can even take that down to companies and then specific individuals for them to reach out to as opposed to just going on websites and submitting a generic resume.

Kate: And just one thing I'll say real fast too that I've learned, 'cause this was not my background, like recruiting or any... That's not my expertise, and what I've learned from Pam and Carol is that they also are a part of, like, a special database that they have access to people that the general public does not.

And so that's another thing that I think is such a value add because, again, if you open your computer and type for a job, I feel like sometimes it just feels spammy or like ads pop up, and you're like, "Oh, you have to pay money to even see a job, and what's worth it?" I feel like to streamline that, especially for a woman going [00:26:00] through divorce You are already running at low capacity just given what you were going through.

 To have Pam and Carol's not only expertise in bringing the best to you, but then saying, "Oh, we actually have the hiring manager for this specific company's email that's not listed publicly." Or, you know, like they have their special ways of like getting in contact with people. But I feel like that's another thing is just like streamlining, because that's what you need, is you need simplification. You need somebody who knows what they're doing. And so I didn't even know that existed, and what I've learned, especially seeing clients go through this process, is just the value add that brings.

Is just, okay, streamlining, like, this is where you want. Here, you can email. Here are five emails that it would take you five days to find, if that, and we can give them to you in an instant.

Dr. Barb: Yeah. Yeah, that's your secret sauce, huh? Don't give that away. 

Maggie: It really is like you go on, you know, Indeed, and it's just like a bunch of spam or a bunch of things that don't resonate or it's hard to filter. I mean, it's just not [00:27:00] as giving. And so I do feel like there is a big thing about having the connections, you know, and talking to people and telling people, "Hey, I'm looking at...

You know, I'm happy to send my resume," or to have those conversations because it seems like that's the way you rise above the noise. And it's like, I can look at all these names, but like, oh, if Carol knows them, well, then it must be better or real or whatever, 'cause there is so much noise out there.

And I know sometimes it, you get defeated of just like, "Well, I did 50 jobs," you know? And I even remember like the first time getting a job and I went to the career center and I was like, "I did 75 applications." She's like, "That's a great start." I was like, "What do you mean that's a great start?" It's

like, my God. But it's a lot. 

Carol: And that's why it's wonderful if you can take advantage of your connections. if I may share a little life story It's when I'm the one of the happiest moments, and I'm really proud of my baby sister. So I went to college when she was in first grade, [00:28:00] and I didn't know she'd wrote me letters sometimes and said, I miss you," but I And when she graduated from college, I was living in Switzerland, and she came and she said, "I always dreamt that someday we would live together."

And she wanted to stay in Switzerland. So this And I'm telling you this, I, because networks, and in this case it was my network, helped my baby sister. So it happened that I applied for a job at the International School of Zurich at the same time that I was doing, I was still finishing the dissertation.

 And I'd been working at this little search firm just trans-translating resumes from German to, to English with a lot of help from my friends. But then when I applied to the school, I got the job. And when the day that Dr. Lilburn, the headmaster, invited me to sign the contract, my sister was in town.

I took my baby sister, and I and purportedly I was there to sign the contract, but I said, "Dr. Lilburn, I'd only [00:29:00] sign this if you hire my sister. She's a kindergarten teacher." Well, I said it in jest, but it just happened that they had more enrollment than they'd anticipated, and they needed a third kindergarten teacher.

 She got the job. She stayed four years and taught kindergarten. The first year it was spillover kids, and she didn't even have a real classroom in the school. It was a trailer. She was in a little kindergarten trailer. But I'm And that's why I wanted to say networking helps. You will be surprised at the people you know who love you or even if you're they're not family, if they see, "Oh, she does that so well.

I always was admiring her for this quality or that quality." And then if you ask them, "Well, so great that you have that job. Any chance for me?" You never know. And I didn't, I wouldn't have thought of taking my sister with me if she hadn't told me about her dream to live together someday.

Dr. Barb: Yeah, that's fabulous. 

Carol: it's connections make a big [00:30:00] difference, too.

Maggie: If you get a no, you're still in the same exact spot, right? 

Carol: Exactly, Maggie. Exactly.

Maggie: so if someone's listening right now and says, "Ugh, I haven't worked in years. Where do I even start?" What are like two to three steps she should take this week to start taking those steps forward? 

Pam: Mm-hmm. They should start writing it down. Write down what they've done. give thoughts to what they've done. work on even just a rough draft of a resume. and then talking about those networks, they should reach out to friends as well as former colleagues from a networking perspective, but also they may see something in you that you don't see, and there may be really valuable things that, that you can be marketing that you just don't know that you have. and then once you get that resume done, I would say we talked about the fear of going on the internet, but go on, and apply for five jobs just to get started and just get moving and lose a little bit of that fear. and you, [00:31:00] think it's critical that you get going. one of the things that, that we do and, and I would advise people, you know, if we're working with them or not, is set a goal of what you're gonna do.

And we work with our clients typically once a week or every other week, to have a structured pattern of just keep moving forward. Don't stop, don't get stalled. and make yourself... It- one of the things that, that Carol and I did in executive search, and we worked on a lot of really complex jobs that sometimes neither, I mean, Carol has her PhD, n- but neither of us are scientists, right?

And we did a lot of high science work. And so what we would do is we would, you know, learn as much as we could about this job and, then we would call like our first probably 10 people that we would call to talk to about this job to see if they had an interest, would be people that we really didn't think would be the best candidates.

And the reason we did that is because sometimes you just get one or two shots, and we wanted to get really comfortable talking about the job, and [00:32:00] these women need to get really comfortable talking about themselves and about their stories. Yeah. So I think that's really critical

Carol: Yes, every call doesn't have to end up with a job, but it informs you for your path forward.

Building that 

confidence. 

Kate: And I would say a step that they should take is go to our website. We have a free resource on our website, shequip.org where they can get like five next steps of what you should take. We have a whole resources page, so even if they don't end up working with us, if somebody is facing divorce, thinking about, go to our resources page.

We've got just a lot there to support because you are navigating a ton of different, you know, lots of things. And so just something, again, to help streamline the chaos of, "Oh my goodness, I'm in this..." 'Cause, you know, some women have the luxury of debating, "Oh, am I gonna get divorced? Am I not?" You know?

And others, it's like, "My life was this way one day, and [00:33:00] now I'm completely blindsided, and I've never one time thought about divorce or re-entering the work..." Or yeah, just so many different circumstances bring you to this point. And so again, if we can help streamline that, bring a little bit of calm to the chaos, that's what we wanna do.

Maggie: Does SheQUIP do any like coaching, practice interviews, things like that to help you get started as well? Or is it more like resume help and applying for positions?

Pam: We definitely do. and you know, I always, for some reason I've always kind of cringed when people ask if we coach, and it's not because, we're just not therapists. I, so, uh, and I've always kind of put the two in the same bucket when I really shouldn't. But essentially I think we do from a job coaching perspective, we absolutely do.

So we offer three packages. The first one is working on, resumes and LinkedIn profiles. the second one would be then carrying that further. That the first would be two sessions. the next would be four sessions, and it would include, very strategically targeting where they wanna go, [00:34:00] and then identifying some people for them to proactively reach out to. and then we carry that further into that more pure coaching, and then continuing to set that momentum of providing additional resources, additional people for them to contact on a weekly basis. and then we will work on interview preparation. And, one thing that I think if you read all studies say that women are underpaid, and so one of the things we also...

We will carry that forward to compensation negotiations as well. That's a critical component.

Maggie: And so you started with your resume and LinkedIn. So is LinkedIn a must these days? 

Carol: I think it is. I think it is. And I'll tell you something, you can get a job with a little help from your friends, which astonished me 'cause I had no idea that people would see over the years my resume and click. They would add skills. "Oh, yeah, she she made good conversation. She was strategic.

She has excellent writing ability." And one by one you know, sometimes the way that I got approached for [00:35:00] new jobs wasn't anything of my own doing, but the other people were clicking the skills, which was a huge education to me because once I realized that there's so many places on LinkedIn that you can you can add your own skills, you can tailor your skill expertise portion of your LinkedIn for the jobs you want.

And because I can guarantee you nowadays 100% sure the big companies that have these HR Departments, they are running all those Indeed or any resumes that come through get run through AI, and AI filters out based Oh You, you know if you've ever applied on Indeed, they'll tell you're a medium, high, or low possibility for this role.

It's because they throw your resume into AI and it comes out based on the skills you put there.

So, we like to think, take a little extra time to add the skills for the roles you want. [00:36:00] And you don't have to redo it every time because it's a big machine out there, the AI. They throw it in and you will be found.

 You will be found matched, matched.

Maggie: Yeah, it's so funny 'cause sometimes I know people are still like, "I don't think I need a LinkedIn," and, "My headshot is fine," and I'm just... Even people who have jobs, I'm like no. That needs to be updated. You have hair, you don't have hair now, you did then. Let's get that updated." You know? I don't care if you turned gray, but, like, let's just be who we are, right?

And so I know some people are still like, especially if you haven't been out there in the workforce, LinkedIn is newer. And so if, you know, if it's been 10 years, it's gonna be like, "What is this? What is this territory?" But you have to get comfortable with it 'cause it's... if you're in business, you're on LinkedIn.

Carol: And so many people, Pam, didn't we realize that in the last 10 years or so, instead of putting a resume, sometimes people just send their LinkedIn URL.

Carol: We very often communicate just directly to [00:37:00] prospective candidates when we were doing search directly on LinkedIn, and don't even have to look up their phone number or Instagram or email.

Yeah. It's a it's a good tool.

Maggie: Well, I feel like this has been such a needed thing as like, you know, Barb and I say, we have so many women reach out who are going through divorce, who need to get back in the workforce and are overwhelmed, you know? And we could see always the things that they've done. I'm like, "Wow, you've raised kids.

You've raised, you know, you've helped aging parents. You've navigated all of that." You know you can do it, but when it's applied in a different realm, it can definitely seem overwhelming. So having this resource out here is super helpful as we're all about having the right professionals in your corner.

And so we're excited that we've, you know, that you guys have launched this business and that we've been able to connect with you guys so early and share this with our audience as well. There is a question we like to ask all of our guests, so I'd love to hear the answer from all of you. you know, after we've all had our lives, we've had these different careers, been divorced and, you know, now doing a new business venture, what [00:38:00] does financial freedom look like to you?

Pam: Really being in a position to help other people and being able to do more than just pay bills, but being able to lift somebody else up and assist them as needed. The area that I raised my kinder- my kids in, was filled with refugee families. Um, so somebody that has, you know, we're not all as blessed

Carol: Same for me, Pam. You know, my, my career really, especially in search past 30 years, was really motivated by the need to provide for my mom who was sick and my little sister. And I'm so glad that I was able to do it. The job, it, it provided that financial freedom to do what I wanted to do the most, which was help my loved ones.

And rewarding.

Kate: I love that. I think that the ability to have freedom, I think is the motivator, but I think also to not fear money. I think so many Women especially, it's just, it's taboo, it's... There's so many unknowns, you can feel like such an idiot [00:39:00] around money. I mean, this is coming from my own personal story of like, "Oh, I should know this by now," or, "I should..."

And so I think financial freedom is not living in fear. And I think so many women, especially coming from divorce, their identity is... they're fearful now because their lifestyle's gone or their security is threatened or something like that. And so I think just not taking those baby steps to overcome that fear one at a time, whether it's like, "Okay, I'm actually gonna look at my numbers," or, "What am I actually spending every month?"

Or, "How much debt am I actually in? How can I get out of that?" Really changing your mindset, I think that is financial freedom is to not live in fear about, you know, numbers and finance and then to be able to move into that generosity space is huge, so.

Maggie: Be financially fearless.

Kate: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Carol: And one thing I love to, to remember is something a dear friend of mine [00:40:00] shared with a group of women who were all going through life change. And she said, "What if it's easier than you think?"

I carry that with me and it, the fear goes away.

What if it's easier? It might seem like a mountain. Start walking, get those good shoes on that are comfortable, and what if it's easier than you think?

Maggie: Well, thank you, all three of you, coming on today and starting this business and really supporting more women through divorce. So we're excited to have all of your links so all the listeners can connect with you and get the support that they're looking for. And to happy job searching.

Best of luck out there. So until next time, be financially fearless.

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